JAV Actress Thrives, Leaves, and Returns... Invisibly??

[jugulear]

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A question for puzzle-lovers, although not an I.D. question. More like a "What th-??" question.

I like mother-daughter movies, especially when they are taken by surprise. (My absolute favorite, and why aren't there more like it, WHY!)

(W-why..? Sob!)

Not too crazy about the r*** variety, but I like mother-daughter enough to sometimes pick up those, as well. A late acquisition:

Mother and Daughter Are Pounced Upon After Returning From a School Entrance Ceremony and r***ing [AOZ-179Z]

(Screen Shots)

From the movie's DMM page, we learn it is a 2014 release, and that there are no credits for the ladies.)

Luckily Sougouwiki.com is around (And I guess JavLibrary agrees with me, because the actresses were listed there as well; the people behind JavLibrary must be consulting Sougouwiki, too), and from what I could determine:

First daughter: Yui Kasugano



First mother: Sumire



Second daughter: Ichigo Aoi



Second mother: Yuri Matsushima


DVDPS-943

The above is a presentation for the background of this little story, so let us now move on to the aspect that had me scratching my pore l'il ol' haid.

Watching the second chapter of this two-tale r*** video, my eye was caught by the lady playing the second mother.



Yeah, I'm not ashamed to admit it. I thought she looked pretty good.

Next, I found myself asking the question that many of you have asked when a JAV actress snaps your neck. Who IS that?

Thanks to Sogouwiki, all of the ladies were identified, so I was in business. After sorting out who was who, my next step was to see what else this lovely lady has been in.

Her name was "Yurie Matsushima" (spelled with an "E" most everywhere except Asian Screens, i.e., Yurie, and not Yuri), which made my heart skip a beat, because Yurie Matsushima happens to be an actress I adore. Here she is in the She Stands Out in a Crowd thread, where I made sure to highlight Yurie. Also, her Asian Screens page.

But this was somebody different. According to Yuri Matsushima's Asian Screens page, cross-referenced with her DMM/R18 pages, I gathered her heyday was around 2008-09. (Her big selling point being the claim that she was a former model, and tall.) From her R18 page sorted by "Release Date," I noticed the latest titles were all compilations, which is the typical fate of JAV actresses who have retired. Her last original production, DATE-009, appears to be from 2011.

So here is what I didn't understand. For all intents and purposes, DMM/R18 is telling us Yuri has called it quits. Yuri's JavLibrary page (accessed from their page for AOZ-179Z) mistakenly leads to the page for my fave, Yurie. Yuri's Sougouwiki page (also accessed from their page for AOZ-179Z) leads to a blank dead-end. (Here is Yuri's "real" Sougouwiki page; we may see the titles listed there are also from the days of old. We may also learn she has two other monikers, Senna Matsushima, and SAYURI.)

So it looks like Yuri called it quits after her heyday around 2008-09, concluded by a brief showing in 2011.

But we know from AOZ-179Z that she poked her nose back in the business in 2014, for which she has barely been acknowledged.

It's possible she made this little "comeback" for one film and one film only, perhaps after her bank account started getting low. But it seems to me that a JAV actress who succeeded in making something of a splash would have come back with more fanfare.

Now we know of cases of JAV actresses who retire and come back with no fanfare; sometimes we've even seen them returning under an entirely new identity. But for the most part, it would make business sense to announce a "big news" comeback for someone who had sort of established herself.

For lack of that, if a JAV actress decides to return with the idea that she's not going to do a lot more porn, it also doesn't make sense that she would stop with one. And one (in this case AOZ-179Z) where she was anonymous. (Only the Sougouwiki experts apparently identified her, and made her presence known.)

So what do you make of this? Kind of weird, isn't it?

Any theories as to why or how such an assault against common sense could take place, let 'er rip.



As a postscript, I thought about letting you in on my travails while trying to learn about the second mother named "Sumire," to demonstrate the quicksand of unknown JAV actress-Land.

You know those single-named JAV actresses usually spell trouble. The only "Sumire" in Asian Screens is for this other lady.

Sumire's Sougouwiki page (accessed from their page for AOZ-179Z) gives us only six titles, all featuring other actresses, with the accent on youth. (In AOZ-179Z, Sumire is obviously in the MILF category.) So unless someone owns these movies, it becomes tough to peg Sumire among the many other naked bodies.

One other lead is Sumire's link from JavLibrary's AOZ-179Z page, which displays only nine titles. Many also feature multi-actresses, and the rare one where she is the sole actress - THZ-02, Absolute Death Superheroine! from 2006 - apparently features somebody else. Two where she co-stars with only one or two other actresses (VRXS-119 and AUKS-039) indicates (upon consulting other references) that Sumire is also known as "Mako Higashio." Now Mako Higashio is no slouch (having entered the biz in 2011), judging by her eight pages at R18, and I finally concluded that the Sumire in question is indeed Ms. Higashio. (Probably.)

So if she has had such a large output, how terribly misleading for sources we rely upon to give the idea of only a handful of movies. Why, it's enough to make me want to write a letter to my congressman.

Isn't it aggravating to go through all of this trouble, just to pin a lady down? (Aren't they aware of all the nonsense we need to go through to pin a lady down in real life -- isn't it sadistic for them to make us suffer with the virtual ladies, too?) It's especially frustrating when the usual references point to "wild-goose-chase" pages. Verily, I doth protest.






.

 

[leebar]

Hmmmm... why?

Wonder if there might be a legal aspect. Maybe the retirement includes a clause saying she won't work with another company (using her starring name), so the only way she could legally work under another label required using another name? Just a guess.

 

[jugulear]

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Thanks for taking a stab at this here mystery, Leebar! I've got a feeling the answer(s) lie elsewhere, however. For one, I'd imagine by the time an actress retires, she will have been past the fresh "exclusive contract" stage. I can't imagine there would be a legal basis for a studio to say, "We own you, and you can never return under your old name." As a second (and minor) point, in this case she returned with no name, uncredited as the movie was. (Naturally, if there was such a restriction where a studio owned the rights to the name that made the actress a star, or a star of sorts, one loophole would be to do future work under a different name... or no name at all.)

In case the possibility of a studio owning the rights to an actress' name sounds odd, I do recall reading somewhere that Misty Mundae, who has appeared in grade-Z softcore fare, was forbidden to use this name since her career's beginning by a movie "studio" (just looked it up: "E.I. Independent Cinema") she had a contract with. Looks like she has been working under another name, apparently Erin Brown. I don't know if this tale is true, though. Yet I read it somewhere, so it must be true.


.

 

[Supmop]

Hmmmm... why?

Wonder if there might be a legal aspect. Maybe the retirement includes a clause saying she won't work with another company (using her starring name), so the only way she could legally work under another label required using another name? Just a guess.

I've the same opinion with you

two of the example is Mizuki Akai, when she finished her contract with E Body, "get retired" and then comeback as Honoka Orihara

and Erika Katagiri, now she comeback as freelancer using different stage name : Nanako Tsukishima

 

[pikuseru]

Are the actresses usually credited for the AOZ movies? For some series, the actresses are never credited normally. It's not because of the actresses. It's just the way the series is. The HAWA movies are the same way.

 

[ding73ding]

Ahh... I remember starting to write a reply to this topic... but nevermind...

Perhaps @jugulear has too rosy a view of the JAV industry. 90% of JAV women carries no "star power" or "brand value" with their name, face or even body. Except for the handfuls of S-class stars, it's a fuck-and-forget culture.

Most JAV performers (even counting most top stars) don't ever get the retirement fanfare (with a commemorative box-set and a separate DVD titled "Retirement"), most of them just fade away quietly. If and when they come back, only a small minority with "star power" gets a "Rebirth" DVD. The vast majority of comebacks, the studios stands to make more profit by marketing her as a fresh face debut or nameless amateur. Why? It must be because the paying customers don't put much stock in has-beens.

Especially, I noticed recent(?) trend of older debutantes. It seems (?) it used to be that most debutante are 19 years old, barely legal. Of course we can assume that their real age may be much higher, perhaps 25 even, but with some make-up and PS and a cooperative media coverage, she becomes a 19 years old AV starlet. But now it seems "熟女" (mature ladies, or MILF) can be a legit debutante too. E.g. Yuki Hodaka put out her debut AV just 40 days shy of her 29th birthday. Understandably she fast track a lot of "firsts" into her debut vid (first creampie, first anal), with the debut SOP of doing a 30 mins "getting to know you" interview, with the slow pace one-piece-of-garment-at-a-time strip tease, and before the vid is over, we (channeled by the studs) gets to pump sperms in her mouth, pussy and rectum, makes for one really AWESOME debut vid. Digressing further, her IV titled "Virgin Nude" was released a few days after the audience already enjoy her getting vigorously fucked. (can a MILF do a "Virgin Nude" IV? isn't that rather biblical? After all, Rebirth is nearly biblical also)

So if you had a former JAV performer who previously had a career of mediocre to moderate success, maybe even a few no.1 hits, but now she's been out of the industry for more than a year, if the studio brings her back, would she bang (sorry) bank more money as a "Rebirth" or a pretended fresh face debutante under a new name? Or even as a nameless amateur? So to stand your conundrum on its head, the answer is perhaps precisely the marginal profit of a "comeback" is negative, for almost all performers but the handfuls at the top of the top.

 

[Supmop]

yes I agree with ding73ding for many performers that don't have star power, if they comeback or continue their AV career they change stage name coz many people prefer new comer, or if they keep using their stage name not many people will care

but I noticed and maybe other people too, recently AV studios have trend to lure some performers with "star power" to make a comeback ex : Noa, Serina Hayakawa, Wakaba Ono

and I'm sure many big studios will try to seduce former s class like Yua Aida, Sora Aoi, Rio Hamasaki, ecc to comeback and make AV with them, they still have a lot of fans, their comeback movie will became top selling

 

[paparoach408]

.

In case the possibility of a studio owning the rights to an actress' name sounds odd, I do recall reading somewhere that Misty Mundae, who has appeared in grade-Z softcore fare, was forbidden to use this name since her career's beginning by a movie "studio" (just looked it up: "E.I. Independent Cinema") she had a contract with. Looks like she has been working under another name, apparently Erin Brown. I don't know if this tale is true, though. Yet I read it somewhere, so it must be true.



.

That's mostly it, agencies, and studios own the names not the girls, unless they have some sort of agreement to only work for them. Example when Meguri left SOD Ace early she lost her meguri name, and had to change to Megu Fujiura, and did it without retiring, while ones who retired Shion Utsuwhatever/Rion, and Eririka Katagiri/(whatever her name is now) had to change because they switched agencies so it depends on the situation. It happens all the time in the american porn industry

Ahh... I remember starting to write a reply to this topic... but nevermind...

Perhaps @jugulear has too rosy a view of the JAV industry. 90% of JAV women carries no "star power" or "brand value" with their name, face or even body. Except for the handfuls of S-class stars, it's a fuck-and-forget culture.

Most JAV performers (even counting most top stars) don't ever get the retirement fanfare (with a commemorative box-set and a separate DVD titled "Retirement"), most of them just fade away quietly. If and when they come back, only a small minority with "star power" gets a "Rebirth" DVD. The vast majority of comebacks, the studios stands to make more profit by marketing her as a fresh face debut or nameless amateur. Why? It must be because the paying customers don't put much stock in has-beens.

Especially, I noticed recent(?) trend of older debutantes. It seems (?) it used to be that most debutante are 19 years old, barely legal. Of course we can assume that their real age may be much higher, perhaps 25 even, but with some make-up and PS and a cooperative media coverage, she becomes a 19 years old AV starlet. But now it seems "熟女" (mature ladies, or MILF) can be a legit debutante too. E.g. Yuki Hodaka put out her debut AV just 40 days shy of her 29th birthday. Understandably she fast track a lot of "firsts" into her debut vid (first creampie, first anal), with the debut SOP of doing a 30 mins "getting to know you" interview, with the slow pace one-piece-of-garment-at-a-time strip tease, and before the vid is over, we (channeled by the studs) gets to pump sperms in her mouth, pussy and rectum, makes for one really AWESOME debut vid. Digressing further, her IV titled "Virgin Nude" was released a few days after the audience already enjoy her getting vigorously fucked. (can a MILF do a "Virgin Nude" IV? isn't that rather biblical? After all, Rebirth is nearly biblical also)

So if you had a former JAV performer who previously had a career of mediocre to moderate success, maybe even a few no.1 hits, but now she's been out of the industry for more than a year, if the studio brings her back, would she bang (sorry) bank more money as a "Rebirth" or a pretended fresh face debutante under a new name? Or even as a nameless amateur? So to stand your conundrum on its head, the answer is perhaps precisely the marginal profit of a "comeback" is negative, for almost all performers but the handfuls at the top of the top.

Most JAV performers (even counting most top stars) don't ever get the retirement fanfare- It depends on the situation because most girls just abruptly retire, so there's no time to do the whole retirement movie thing

The vast majority of comebacks, the studios stands to make more profit by marketing her as a fresh face debut or nameless amateur.- You see with the internet today i don't think that's likely, people will always figure it out which, and i think a more established name would probably bring in more fans than a fresh faced debut, since girls debut daily it's kinda hard to care.

Especially, I noticed recent(?) trend of older debutantes. It seems (?) it used to be that most debutante are 19 years old, barely legal-I don't think age has ever really mattereed you can debut at whatever age you want, and if you can be marketed towards whatever demographic they want you to, then it'll happen. For example didn't Tsubomi debut at 23? and was marketed as a loli queen, and still to this day when she's nearing 30 she's still marketed that way.

would she bang (sorry) bank more money as a "Rebirth" or a pretended fresh face debutante under a new name?-Rebirth probably, so many new debuts people get lost, and forgotten pretty easily, even having a small name brand would probably be better then none.


Lastly the only time i've ever been tricked into thinking a debut, was an actual first time debut was with
Riko Honda


Who was former S1S1 girl Sawa Nakazato(who did 8 videos)


Edit:Fixed it just for you Jugulear

 

[jugulear]

.
I was composing the first part of what's below as reflections toward Ding73ding's composition... but now I see our pal, Paparoach408, has added some of his own precious thoughts.

"The vast majority of comebacks, the studios stands to make more profit by marketing her as a fresh face debut or nameless amateur."

Ding73ding's response makes sense... in a kind of nonsensical way.

"Why? It must be because the paying customers don't put much stock in has-beens."

If true, that's the part I find hard to understand, or that is heartbreaking. It's not that I have a "rosy" view of things, it's just that the whole concept of "stars" (or "somewhat known entities") gets turned on its head.

We know from all the many threads here on Discussion how our members have appreciation for individual actresses. Why, when Hollywood got started, the studios quickly learned the value of throwaway actors who got to be known, screen magazines capitalized on the public's hunger for the stars or semi-stars. In later years especially, the involvement of the worst has-been could make the difference in making a Grade-Z movie marketable. Why, even the nobodies appearing on TV shows like Dancing with the Stars get incomprehensible respect.

Now I'm aware the parallels I've just raised are not JAV, but these principles ought to be universal. Getting back to how those of us on Akiba-Online have such great appreciation for these ladies in general (and in JAV, every single one, regardless of achievement or stature, commands our devotion... since are they not known as "idols"?), we CARE when they are no longer around. Most of us here may not qualify under Ding73ding's distinction as "paying" customers, but I'd think the latter type of fan would be even more dedicated.

I can understand the studios' profit motive by repackaging an existing actress under a new name, but as far as a studio capitalizing on such a lady (who has made somewhat of a mark) as a nameless amateur... as in this case I've reported, regarding Yuri Matsushima... well, I am rebelling against that rationale. Even though there may be truth to it.

Yeah, the JAV studios have a lopsided view sometimes, with giving starpower their due. How many times have we run into multi-actress movies that are uncredited, even when the movies involve a Yui Hatano here, or a Misa Yuki there.

==============================

At this point, I discovered Paparoach408 was adding his thoughts in the meantime. He addressed the very portion I had singled out:

The vast majority of comebacks, the studios stands to make more profit by marketing her as a fresh face debut or nameless amateur.- You see with the internet today i don't think that's likely, people will always figure it out which, and i think a more established name would probably bring in more fans than a fresh faced debut, since girls debut daily it's kinda hard to care.

The point about people always figuring out who the ladies are, if the ladies had a track record, is an excellent one. The following point was more pertinent for me: "A more established name would probably bring in more fans than a fresh faced debut."

That is exactly my sentiment, logically speaking.

"Even having a small name brand would probably be better then none."

Exactly. At least logically...

Aside from JAV's weirdo way of sometimes not crediting stars or semi-stars in their multi-actress movies, it still makes little sense why Yuri Matsushima would have been so ignored in AOZ-179Z, particularly after her absence.

I see... it must have been Papa, right?... composed another set of thoughts which were left hidden under the "QUOTE" format (see the very top of Papa's post, where I was quoted), revealed only after one clicks on "Click to Expand" (in response to who owns the actresses' names):

That's mostly it, agencies, and studios own the names not the girls, unless they have some sort of agreement to only work for them. Example when Meguri left SOD Ace early she lost her meguri name, and had to change to Megu Fujiura, and did it without retiring, while ones who retired Shion Utsuwhatever/Rion, and Eririka Katagiri/(whatever her name is now) had to change because they switched agencies so it depends on the situation. It happens all the time in the american porn industry

I did not know this was a fact. If this is the case, it would go far in explaining why Yuri Matsushima's identity was ignored in this little "comeback," which surely could have excited those who knew and appreciated the woman.

If name ownership played an issue, then Leebar was right.

This would explain why a lot of the actresses have so many aliases.

Brings up another issue... if a JAV actress becomes known by a certain name, and then loses control of that name, that really stinks.


.

 

[Supmop]

That's mostly it, agencies, and studios own the names not the girls, unless they have some sort of agreement to only work for them. Example when Meguri left SOD Ace early she lost her meguri name, and had to change to Megu Fujiura, and did it without retiring, while ones who retired Shion Utsuwhatever/Rion, and Eririka Katagiri/(whatever her name is now) had to change because they switched agencies so it depends on the situation. It happens all the time in the american porn industry


Most JAV performers (even counting most top stars) don't ever get the retirement fanfare- It depends on the situation because most girls just abruptly retire, so there's no time to do the whole retirement movie thing

The vast majority of comebacks, the studios stands to make more profit by marketing her as a fresh face debut or nameless amateur.- You see with the internet today i don't think that's likely, people will always figure it out which, and i think a more established name would probably bring in more fans than a fresh faced debut, since girls debut daily it's kinda hard to care.

Especially, I noticed recent(?) trend of older debutantes. It seems (?) it used to be that most debutante are 19 years old, barely legal-I don't think age has ever really mattereed you can debut at whatever age you want, and if you can be marketed towards whatever demographic they want you to, then it'll happen. For example didn't Tsubomi debut at 23? and was marketed as a loli queen, and still to this day when she's nearing 30 she's still marketed that way.

would she bang (sorry) bank more money as a "Rebirth" or a pretended fresh face debutante under a new name?-Rebirth probably, so many new debuts people get lost, and forgotten pretty easily, even having a small name brand would probably be better then none.


Lastly the only time i've ever been tricked into thinking a debut, was an actual first time debut was with
Riko Honda
View attachment 564146

Who was former S1S1 girl Sawa Nakazato(who did 8 videos)
View attachment 564145

Edit:Fixed it just for you Jugulear

I'm totally agree paparoach408

more established name would probably bring in more fans than a fresh faced debut, if Sora Aoi, Mihiro or Yua Aida make a comeback movie it will be big hits than any fresh debute movie

 

[ding73ding]

First it should have been clear that I wasnt talking in absolutes. And by no means I was implying that every studios makes the same kind of calculations or makes that calculation with always the same formulas. So yes there are many outliers, actually I wont be surprised if all kinds of outliers are summed up they outnumber the general case. Thats fine, we know and love JAV because its very diverse. But still the "general" case Im talking about is still the most representative even if it only represents (say) 20% of the total.

First, about the age of internet. I suggest a few points for your consideration:

1. The JAV "market" (quantified as the money spent by customer on rental, purchase, legit online subscription etc) is highly skewed against the internet geeks. By being here, we r on the geeky end of the whole continuum and u may notice we r also on the leecher end of the continuum. Go to the other end, the non-leeching end, and I think u will find most of the studios revenue comes from folks who dont know what a torrent is and have never heard of Sogouwiki.

2. The "market" doesnt care about the reality in its full glory, not nearly as much as we do here. Put another way, I am an overthinker, as are many of u in this forum/thread. I over-analyze things even in mid-stroke. We take delight in finding XYZ was actually ABC who took a break for 2 yrs 7 months and 3 wks, or what type of implants were used in JKL's fake boobs. But we are the outlier to the market. The "general case" just want to grab a vid based on the cover and watch maybe 10 minutes of it, just enough to beat off and that's it transaction is complete.

3. Let's take AOZ-179Z from the OP, and let's pretend for the moment, the mother-in-question isn't just some obscure Yuri with-or-without-a e, but some bona fide STAR, say Maria Ozawa. How many more sale would AOZ-179Z generate by pasting MARIA OZAWA all over the cover? Yes probably quite a bit. AOZ-179Z's over is exactly the type of vid that I pass up on within 0.25 seconds. But if it features Maria Ozawa, yes I would watch it. So AOZ-179-with-MO would turn it from a typical (forgettable) amateur genre to a hit. You say... yeah! That's why you are so puzzled. But where does that leave the studio? One hit, nice, but what about the rest of the series? AOZ-180, AOZ-181...? Making MO a marketing tool for AOZ-179 may turn it into a success but it may also ruin the rest of the series unless they can keep up with the newly-heightened expectation of high-profile comebacks and/or star power. It may work out better, overall, to waste the star power of a Yuri(e) Soandso if it means the whole series can keep chugging along with low-budget no-name performers.

 

[Supmop]

First it should have been clear that I wasnt talking in absolutes. And by no means I was implying that every studios makes the same kind of calculations or makes that calculation with always the same formulas. So yes there are many outliers, actually I wont be surprised if all kinds of outliers are summed up they outnumber the general case. Thats fine, we know and love JAV because its very diverse. But still the "general" case Im talking about is still the most representative even if it only represents (say) 20% of the total.

First, about the age of internet. I suggest a few points for your consideration:

1. The JAV "market" (quantified as the money spent by customer on rental, purchase, legit online subscription etc) is highly skewed against the internet geeks. By being here, we r on the geeky end of the whole continuum and u may notice we r also on the leecher end of the continuum. Go to the other end, the non-leeching end, and I think u will find most of the studios revenue comes from folks who dont know what a torrent is and have never heard of Sogouwiki.

2. The "market" doesnt care about the reality in its full glory, not nearly as much as we do here. Put another way, I am an overthinker, as are many of u in this forum/thread. I over-analyze things even in mid-stroke. We take delight in finding XYZ was actually ABC who took a break for 2 yrs 7 months and 3 wks, or what type of implants were used in JKL's fake boobs. But we are the outlier to the market. The "general case" just want to grab a vid based on the cover and watch maybe 10 minutes of it, just enough to beat off and that's it transaction is complete.

3. Let's take AOZ-179Z from the OP, and let's pretend for the moment, the mother-in-question isn't just some obscure Yuri with-or-without-a e, but some bona fide STAR, say Maria Ozawa. How many more sale would AOZ-179Z generate by pasting MARIA OZAWA all over the cover? Yes probably quite a bit. AOZ-179Z's over is exactly the type of vid that I pass up on within 0.25 seconds. But if it features Maria Ozawa, yes I would watch it. So AOZ-179-with-MO would turn it from a typical (forgettable) amateur genre to a hit. You say... yeah! That's why you are so puzzled. But where does that leave the studio? One hit, nice, but what about the rest of the series? AOZ-180, AOZ-181...? Making MO a marketing tool for AOZ-179 may turn it into a success but it may also ruin the rest of the series unless they can keep up with the newly-heightened expectation of high-profile comebacks and/or star power. It may work out better, overall, to waste the star power of a Yuri(e) Soandso if it means the whole series can keep chugging along with low-budget no-name performers.

I agree many of JAV viewers are leechers, but still a lot of people willing to buy legal download, thats why those companies still can running their bussiness

you make example from mediocre studio, big name like Moodyz can hold their consistency for example Bako Bako Fans thanksgiving bus tour, if Moodyz can successfully hire Sora Aoi, Yua Aida, Maria Ozawa or any other former s grade stars who still in good shape will not ruin any other series

if they can do that, what can be ruin is their competitors

and if studio can hire s grade actresses for long term, not just for 1-2 movies, this can boost studio's popularity too, remember S1 when they have super team with Maria Ozawa, Tina Yuzuki, Yuma Asami, Yua Aida, Sora Aoi, Mihiro, Rin Suzuka, Reina Matsushima and many other

 

[ding73ding]

Just generally replying to everyone...

So of course Rebirths is a real JAV phenomena, my angle didn't exclude that. The names you bought up, sure (let's say) they are in the top of the top. But from any 10 years period (let's say the 1990s) how many performers would you think be bankable investment as a Rebirth in 2016? IMHO, around 10, you might be able to name more than 10, but I'd question your sense of reality if you come up with 20.

Ok... just in case I'm putting my foot in my mouth, let's search "復活" in 2015. Now I'm not being totally scientific, but pick a couple to support my point: XRW-106 featuring Ai Uehara (I leave it as an exercise for the reader what's going on there), another example MIAD-844, Wakaba Onoue, not a name I recognize, not sure what kind of star power she musters. So let's dig: she debuted in KAWD-384 at the age of 20 yrs 3 months, retired in KAWD-542 at age 22 yrs 2 months, and rebirth in MIAD-844 at age 23 yrs 7 months. Hmm maybe you can argue she breaks my general case, but equally, does she fit your view of a typical life-cycle of career-retirement-rebirth?

More like, a kid (at my age, I get to call a 22-year-old man or woman a kid) had some easy money in her account, decided she will do Something with her life. Only 17 months later, her easy money is all gone, her Do Something with Life plan turned out not what it should be, and come back to the industry for another round of easy money. For a lot of us (both the leecher-geeks and the paying-jerk-offs) hardly noticed her coming and going and returning.

The deeper point is @jugulear 's puzzlement over the "stars" and "idols", I think there's a cultural gap here. In the West, a star or idol have much more staying power than in Japan and Korea. In the West, 10 years is barely a career, with 20+ years career is common. In Japan, well... ok there are two extremes, in art or anything high brow (e.g. kabuki theatre) even 20 years on stage the performer still have to treated as a student, a Boy barely qualify to serve tea to the true master. But in the entertainment world, with 5 years one is considered an old guard, and Wakaba Onoue's (first) career life-cycle of 2 years minus a month is common place. It's seems strange or stupid by Western standard, but that's the way it is.

I hear it even extends to political life in S. Korea. A ROK president might be doing a fine job, with no major mistake or scandal in his/er political career, but to win a second term is very difficult. There's a huge bias against incumbent, which is opposite of rest of the world. It seems S. Korean voters desire a fresh face more than they care that the sitting incumbent had proven his/her competence.

And indeed most J- and K- idols aren't the master of their own career (the studio owns their name and their persona) Even 25 years career doesn't buy you control of your own destiny, you command respect, but the studio can respectfully demand that you obey studio's decisions to the letter.

Of course, it's not quite as absolute as that. There's a bit of breaking down of the old ways, a bit more individualism since the 21st Century, but that's the traditional baseline.

 

[Supmop]

Just generally replying to everyone...
So of course Rebirths is a real JAV phenomena, my angle didn't exclude that. The names you bought up, sure (let's say) they are in the top of the top. But from any 10 years period (let's say the 1990s) how many performers would you think be bankable investment as a Rebirth in 2016? IMHO, around 10, you might be able to name more than 10, but I'd question your sense of reality if you come up with 20.

Ok... just in case I'm putting my foot in my mouth, let's search "復活" in 2015. Now I'm not being totally scientific, but pick a couple to support my point: XRW-106 featuring Ai Uehara (I leave it as an exercise for the reader what's going on there), another example MIAD-844, Wakaba Onoue, not a name I recognize, not sure what kind of star power she musters. So let's dig: she debuted in KAWD-384 at the age of 20 yrs 3 months, retired in KAWD-542 at age 22 yrs 2 months, and rebirth in MIAD-844 at age 23 yrs 7 months. Hmm maybe you can argue she breaks my general case, but equally, does she fit your view of a typical life-cycle of career-retirement-rebirth?

20 years is to long, not many girls still in good shape at the age of 40s + by that time their comeback oppurtunities already expire, to be fair don't think to far, its like you asking Pele and Maradona to comeback play as pro player in top league

my point in putting Wakaba Ono as example is : if not so famous actress like her still can make decent comeback, how about much more popular names ?

studios will try to boost their sale, they must already learned which former actresses that can bring a lot of money if they make a comeback, releasing AV debutants are common so how about bring back divas, or some more established names

and for the reason why she make a comeback, maybe like you said her easy money is all gone, and she comeback to the industry for another round of easy money, and if studios think she still can attract enough buyers for them so they make deal and produce her movies again

More like, a kid (at my age, I get to call a 22-year-old man or woman a kid) had some easy money in her account, decided she will do Something with her life. Only 17 months later, her easy money is all gone, her Do Something with Life plan turned out not what it should be, and come back to the industry for another round of easy money. For a lot of us (both the leecher-geeks and the paying-jerk-offs) hardly noticed her coming and going and returning.

we hardly noticed them if they not popular enough, not pretty enough or if their retirement too short

if she pretty and popular enough, just 1-2 months without any new movie people already started to miss her, make thread ask if she get retire or not

 

[paparoach408]

Just generally replying to everyone...

So of course Rebirths is a real JAV phenomena, my angle didn't exclude that. The names you bought up, sure (let's say) they are in the top of the top. But from any 10 years period (let's say the 1990s) how many performers would you think be bankable investment as a Rebirth in 2016? IMHO, around 10, you might be able to name more than 10, but I'd question your sense of reality if you come up with 20.

I would say quite a bit, Nostalgia kills heck two mid level jav actresses of the 90s that i can recall Sanae Aso, and Ai Komori when they came back they killed it

Ok... just in case I'm putting my foot in my mouth, let's search "復活" in 2015. Now I'm not being totally scientific, but pick a couple to support my point: XRW-106 featuring Ai Uehara (I leave it as an exercise for the reader what's going on there), another example MIAD-844, Wakaba Onoue, not a name I recognize, not sure what kind of star power she musters. So let's dig: she debuted in KAWD-384 at the age of 20 yrs 3 months, retired in KAWD-542 at age 22 yrs 2 months, and rebirth in MIAD-844 at age 23 yrs 7 months. Hmm maybe you can argue she breaks my general case, but equally, does she fit your view of a typical life-cycle of career-retirement-rebirth?

Wakaba Onue was pretty popular, she won video of the year with Ai Uehara right before she retired, and people where shocked by the retirement because she was on the cusp of becoming a star


More like, a kid (at my age, I get to call a 22-year-old man or woman a kid) had some easy money in her account, decided she will do Something with her life. Only 17 months later, her easy money is all gone, her Do Something with Life plan turned out not what it should be, and come back to the industry for another round of easy money. For a lot of us (both the leecher-geeks and the paying-jerk-offs) hardly noticed her coming and going and returning.

The deeper point is @jugulear 's puzzlement over the "stars" and "idols", I think there's a cultural gap here. In the West, a star or idol have much more staying power than in Japan and Korea. In the West, 10 years is barely a career, with 20+ years career is common. In Japan, well... ok there are two extremes, in art or anything high brow (e.g. kabuki theatre) even 20 years on stage the performer still have to treated as a student, a Boy barely qualify to serve tea to the true master. But in the entertainment world, with 5 years one is considered an old guard, and Wakaba Onoue's (first) career life-cycle of 2 years minus a month is common place. It's seems strange or stupid by Western standard, but that's the way it is.

That isn't true The stars stay at the top in any industry, now there are people who are on the cusp of stardom falling off the face of the earth, but the stars stay, the Korean industry is a little different because men have to spend 2 years in the military before age 30 but the ones at the top usually come back and get right back to being on top.

If you're talking about Porn in the west, then 1 year is considered long, but a lot usually comeback less then a year later

 

[ding73ding]

Wakaba Onoue, yes you were right. Turns out I do have her in my collection. The vid you mention might be the one with Ai Uehara, I do have it and liked it. But still she wasn't on my radar screen and her Retirement and Rebirth sailed right under my nose (and a lot of other noses too, I bet).

Ah... my previous post was crossing into mainstream entertainment without clearly saying so. But even in Western porn, a lot of old guards really keep making porn for 20 years. That's partly the reason I abandoned American porn, the new girls didn't appeal to me and the old girls have turned into rubbery pickles.

I mean look at my avatar, half the Akiba members can't name her, and she's not even from the 90s. I'd love it if she come back for one, for old time sake. But in a way, I also wish she's having a normal life and a loving family. How much money would it take to entice her back? What's the top rate for a current S-class star? Most recent info I saw was 250k, double that for her, 500k. Would 500k bring her back? You know I love to see her back sucking and fucking big dicks, maybe pair her with a 19 year old fresh face for a Debut+Rebirth bonanza, or maybe a rope bondage vid, which is missing in her opus. Yeah that will kill it for sure. But I do love her enough that I wish she can say NO to 500k.

Turn it around can a studio make a profit with a 500k investment on an old star? Maybe, maybe not... I can't say it's definitely a loser. But if were my own money, no way, absolutely not. I could pay 500k (yen!) to spend a night with her, or someone like her. But as an investment (remember 500k is only her fee, the total budget is more), no, I won't bet my own money that her Rebirth video would break even.

 

[paparoach408]

Wakaba Onoue, yes you were right. Turns out I do have her in my collection. The vid you mention might be the one with Ai Uehara, I do have it and liked it. But still she wasn't on my radar screen and her Retirement and Rebirth sailed right under my nose (and a lot of other noses too, I bet).

Ah... my previous post was crossing into mainstream entertainment without clearly saying so. But even in Western porn, a lot of old guards really keep making porn for 20 years. That's partly the reason I abandoned American porn, the new girls didn't appeal to me and the old girls have turned into rubbery pickles.

I mean look at my avatar, half the Akiba members can't name her, and she's not even from the 90s. I'd love it if she come back for one, for old time sake. But in a way, I also wish she's having a normal life and a loving family. How much money would it take to entice her back? What's the top rate for a current S-class star? Most recent info I saw was 250k, double that for her, 500k. Would 500k bring her back? You know I love to see her back sucking and fucking big dicks, maybe pair her with a 19 year old fresh face for a Debut+Rebirth bonanza, or maybe a rope bondage vid, which is missing in her opus. Yeah that will kill it for sure. But I do love her enough that I wish she can say NO to 500k.

Turn it around can a studio make a profit with a 500k investment on an old star? Maybe, maybe not... I can't say it's definitely a loser. But if were my own money, no way, absolutely not. I could pay 500k (yen!) to spend a night with her, or someone like her. But as an investment (remember 500k is only her fee, the total budget is more), no, I won't bet my own money that her Rebirth video would break even.

As a collector of all Max-A, Alice Japan, and Soft on Demand Star video i would guess it's Kitahara Takako

But yea i agree it would be cheaper to get a fresh face, but with them you might not make any money at all since there are so many debuts each month, girls easily get lost in the shuffle. but it's a risk no matter what they do in the internet age. But i think it would be more likely to make your money back bringing a vet back, then a fresh face but the financial risk would be bigger

 

[Supmop]

Wakaba Onoue, yes you were right. Turns out I do have her in my collection. The vid you mention might be the one with Ai Uehara, I do have it and liked it. But still she wasn't on my radar screen and her Retirement and Rebirth sailed right under my nose (and a lot of other noses too, I bet).

like I said before, if her retirement was short, I called it vacation, most people don't realize it. and in Wakaba Ono's case she is not very popular

Ah... my previous post was crossing into mainstream entertainment without clearly saying so. But even in Western porn, a lot of old guards really keep making porn for 20 years. That's partly the reason I abandoned American porn, the new girls didn't appeal to me and the old girls have turned into rubbery pickles.

thats the difference betwen JAV vs Western porn, I admit in the past I don't like JAV because mozaik and I feel disturbed by the girls moan

but later I enjoy JAV because JAV still interesting after long period, I always find my favorites from each generations

I mean look at my avatar, half the Akiba members can't name her, and she's not even from the 90s. I'd love it if she come back for one, for old time sake. But in a way, I also wish she's having a normal life and a loving family. How much money would it take to entice her back? What's the top rate for a current S-class star? Most recent info I saw was 250k, double that for her, 500k. Would 500k bring her back? You know I love to see her back sucking and fucking big dicks, maybe pair her with a 19 year old fresh face for a Debut+Rebirth bonanza, or maybe a rope bondage vid, which is missing in her opus. Yeah that will kill it for sure. But I do love her enough that I wish she can say NO to 500k.

yes I understand some people don't care about the past, like music a lot of peoples who don't know The Beatles, but some others like vintage

your idea for making duet of comeback legend and fresh new comer is great, and its has possibility to be done, you can say no, but we don't know how those studios think, and we don't know how much money can bring her back, 250 K could be enough, its depend on the situation

I think world economy crisis helping this former JAV actresses to make comeback

Turn it around can a studio make a profit with a 500k investment on an old star? Maybe, maybe not... I can't say it's definitely a loser. But if were my own money, no way, absolutely not. I could pay 500k (yen!) to spend a night with her, or someone like her. But as an investment (remember 500k is only her fee, the total budget is more), no, I won't bet my own money that her Rebirth video would break even.

your thinking could be different with the studios, Moodyz Bako Bako its spend a lot of money, but Moodyz willing to pay it, so making another project like bring back former legends is not impossible for them, just need the right time and the right price

sometimes in bussiness they not only looking for profits, they try to boost their company image too

 

[Supmop]

As a collector of all Max-A, Alice Japan, and Soft on Demand Star video i would guess it's Kitahara Takako

But yea i agree it would be cheaper to get a fresh face, but with them you might not make any money at all since there are so many debuts each month, girls easily get lost in the shuffle. but it's a risk no matter what they do in the internet age. But i think it would be more likely to make your money back bringing a vet back, then a fresh face but the financial risk would be bigger

yup, bigger risk could bring bigger profit or bigger lost

you must be know Alice, Kuki, HMP and some other old studios are re releasing their old movies ? I bet those companies learning buyer response to the oldies stuff

I believe will be time when AV studios make a trend : bring back former legend

 

[paparoach408]

yup, bigger risk could bring bigger profit or bigger lost

you must be know Alice, Kuki, HMP and some other old studios are re releasing their old movies ? I bet those companies learning buyer response to the oldies stuff

I believe will be time when AV studios make a trend : bring back former legend

I'm contemplating giving up on collecting Max-A, and Alice newer stuff because they don't have anyone that has blown me away since there stars have left, but yeah i'm always watching out for the older stuff to collect!


I don't think bringing back old stars will ever be a trend, i think the trend will stay former celebrities/idols because that's always going to make money