meguIV: The Official Akiba-Online DVD Encoder (v1.0.1.1)

astrayred

Member
Mar 19, 2008
158
16
Disabling pre-rendering on Placebo settings runs the risk of out-of-memory issues and crashes. Really there's no good reason for memory issues on SD material, but unfortunately another problem with AviSynth is that it's caching algorithm is not smart enough. Caches too much, runs out of memory, crashes. Very much affects multi-threaded ripping.

Best solution would be to rewrite AviSynth's caching (and threading) code. No-one wants that job.
Second best solution is to make a 64-bit MeguIVit. It's on my to do list.

Edit1 @Astrayred: I'll up the threading hack-fix code & dlls on D9, but I don't think it will kickstart any development work. The authors already know that Avisynth needs to be re-architected, and have had some discussions about it. They failed to agree and didn't appear eager to do the work in any case.

Edit2 @Astrayred:

Using progressive mode on interlaced material will give you near duplicate frames - something much like 30fps. Is that your intent?

@IceManz: I meant that I get random crashes very rarely to none at all. I'm using 64-bit Avisynth if that helps. Yup, I'm not using MeguVit, but vanilla MeGUI.

@Vitreous, nope I meant that I'm using progressive mode on progressive material. Those DVDISOs were flagged as interlaced in DGIndex but are actually progressive. I verified this via 3 methods:

1) Using QTGMC non-progressive. That is, it outputs 59.94 fps. The motion is different, it's jerky and not smooth at all.

2) Load the video into DGIndex and scan for those interlace lines.

3) Use MeGUI's source detector. It's usually pretty accurate.

A few studios are guilty of these shenanigans. For Gravure, it's usually the studio using product code prefix ENTO. I was going through my collection and to my horror found that all my ENTO DVDs are encoded that way, fake interlaced.

If I had interlaced material I will just use standard processing, so I don't really understand what you are saying. :puzzled:
 

Vitreous

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Former Staff
Sep 13, 2009
2,033
591
If I had interlaced material I will just use standard processing, so I don't really understand what you are saying.
I thought you meant that you were using progressive processing for mixed content.
Now a QTGMC that can handle mixed content would be nice...
 

astrayred

Member
Mar 19, 2008
158
16
I thought you meant that you were using progressive processing for mixed content.
Now a QTGMC that can handle mixed content would be nice...

Ah I see. Apologies for any confusion.

Luckily for me so far whatever mixed content I have is split neatly into two: Progressive for main movie and interlaced for interviews. I just encode them separately, using normal QTGMC for the interlaced interviews and progressive mode for progressive.

Lately though I been coming across some JAV titles with really mixed interlaced/progressive. One scene will be interlaced and the next will be progressive.

I don't feel like using Trim() a few times over so I'm holding it off as it's way too troublesome.
 

Rollyco

Team Tomoe
Oct 4, 2007
3,562
34
translation
translation
Thanks, you two... much appreciated!

I think maybe we should wait to see what fixes Vitreous comes up with for his next release. If it's free of problems then I can re-package it as meguIV 2.0 and amend the guide with new instructions. I'm sure 80% of your existing translation work could be re-used, plus isityours' meguIVit addendum.

Would you guys be willing to help out with translating the remaining new 20%? We can split up the work so that there's no duplication of effort.
 

Vitreous

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Former Staff
Sep 13, 2009
2,033
591
I don't think you'll need many changes to the instructions for my next release. I've been focusing on the internals (script, dlls). I expect the outward changes to just come in the form of added & changed presets for now.
 

Rollyco

Team Tomoe
Oct 4, 2007
3,562
34
Yeah, probably just an expansion of Step 2, explaining your presets.
 

Vitreous

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Former Staff
Sep 13, 2009
2,033
591
Hi Vitreous. I'm just wondering, how's progress on the new QTGMC?
The new modes work in one pass now, but the extra precision still takes time: two NNEDI3 passes per frame rather than one, plus some other extra processing. The new modes really do extract more detail and give an almost exact progressive reproduction of the source. But we're talking about improvements over an already excellent algorithm, so the changes are subtle - don't get excited. I suspect most people won't care/notice the difference given the extra processing time (IceManZ will love it though...!)

Requires a high quality, finely detailed source - there's no point feeding a poor source into these new modes as they will faithfully reproduce any source problems. By design there's not nearly as much denoising / oversharpening as the standard algorithm - the intent is perfect reproduction. But this will disappoint those who want strong denoising and oversharpening.

ETA: at least a week. I've mostly finished the scripting: the changes are fairly minor, but they're very delicate, so I need to test carefully. There's some math in there that needs checking too. I'm doing a number of full rips, each being a test of the system. Then I'll finish up and post. Please have patience...
 

astrayred

Member
Mar 19, 2008
158
16
The new modes work in one pass now, but the extra precision still takes time: two NNEDI3 passes per frame rather than one, plus some other extra processing. The new modes really do extract more detail and give an almost exact progressive reproduction of the source. But we're talking about improvements over an already excellent algorithm, so the changes are subtle - don't get excited. I suspect most people won't care/notice the difference given the extra processing time (IceManZ will love it though...!)

Requires a high quality, finely detailed source - there's no point feeding a poor source into these new modes as they will faithfully reproduce any source problems. By design there's not nearly as much denoising / oversharpening as the standard algorithm - the intent is perfect reproduction. But this will disappoint those who want strong denoising and oversharpening.

ETA: at least a week. I've mostly finished the scripting: the changes are fairly minor, but they're very delicate, so I need to test carefully. There's some math in there that needs checking too. I'm doing a number of full rips, each being a test of the system. Then I'll finish up and post. Please have patience...

Thanks for the update. I thought as much that one should feed a good source into the new QTGMC. Seeing as the usage scenario might be different, I guess it will either have a new function name or a new preset?

I sure hope I don't sound like I'm rushing you. I understand that good things take time, and so I will be patient. :pandalaugh:
 

no__One

Active Member
May 27, 2007
947
175
I see... I really see I will love your new QTGMC :pandalaugh:

By cons, my PC could do the mood swings and die in horrible pain after long ... long and arduous hours of encoding. :evillaugh:

Thanks a lot Mr.Vitreous for all these awesome new and subtle improvements.
:bow-pray:

PS: If I have well understood this new QTGMC will not be suitable for videos like CD ?:puzzled:
 

Vitreous

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Former Staff
Sep 13, 2009
2,033
591
If I have well understood this new QTGMC will not be suitable for videos like CD
The better CD vids are detailed and not very noisy, so they would be appropriate. They often have poor lighting / contrast, but that doesn't affect the deinterlacing.
 

isityours

People don't dance no mo'
Sep 27, 2008
2,886
4,135
will the new QTGMC replace the existing one or be available just as a preset?
 

Vitreous

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Former Staff
Sep 13, 2009
2,033
591
will the new QTGMC replace the existing one or be available just as a preset?
The new ripping approach is not actually a separate process. It's a set of additional processing tasks inserted into the algorithm that adjust and refine the default output. That means the original processing approach is still available by just disengaging the new parts. I will initially add new presets to enable the new bits, and leave the original presets or something very like them.
 

no__One

Active Member
May 27, 2007
947
175
I just saw your comment on "Feedback for [IV] Direct Download Thread"

http://www.akiba-online.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1107827&postcount=1151

Then I saw a question. Currently, the profile "Placebo" maximizes the quality and to a lesser extent the final size of the resulting video.

With the new QTGMC, will be there as well or is it will only focus on rendering quality? :puzzled:

Regards.
 

Vitreous

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Former Staff
Sep 13, 2009
2,033
591
The new QTGMC will contain all the presets you use currently - they have not changed

There will be new QTGMC presets that focus exclusively on accuracy to the source ISO. Note that accuracy is not the same as quality - the result quality depends on the source quality. However, in general the quality will be very high compared to existing modes.

The new modes are slower and retain more detail, which could make larger files. But I'm not sure - the rips I've made with it are not unusually large. But I've been using new x264 presets too. The next MeguIVit will have these new x264 presets to better encode the finest detail.
 

astrayred

Member
Mar 19, 2008
158
16
The new QTGMC will contain all the presets you use currently - they have not changed

There will be new QTGMC presets that focus exclusively on accuracy to the source ISO. Note that accuracy is not the same as quality - the result quality depends on the source quality. However, in general the quality will be very high compared to existing modes.

The new modes are slower and retain more detail, which could make larger files. But I'm not sure - the rips I've made with it are not unusually large. But I've been using new x264 presets too. The next MeguIVit will have these new x264 presets to better encode the finest detail.

I took at look at the Sayaka video, and I noticed it is less sharp than your Yuri Takase one. But I guess that's due to the peculiarities of the source? I think it might be interesting to do a side-by-side video comparing new and old TGMC. :D
 

Vitreous

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Former Staff
Sep 13, 2009
2,033
591
I took at look at the Sayaka video, and I noticed it is less sharp than your Yuri Takase one. But I guess that's due to the peculiarities of the source? I think it might be interesting to do a side-by-side video comparing new and old TGMC. :D
What you saw was exactly what the source was like. That's the point I've been making about accuracy vs quality. The Yuri vid is a clean, sharp fairly recent vid. The Sayaka vid is from 2004 and looks almost analog, much smoother and with more noise / less detail.

In Yuri's vid, the new mode helped pull out exact detail, e.g. skin tone, eyelashes, individual hairs etc. In Sayaka's vid, the new mode helped to remove the plastic-like oversharpening that TGMC always puts on foliage. However, it also honored the noise, so I did have to run an additional denoise pass on that one. So post-processing becomes relevant. You may want to do additional deblocking, debanding, denoising and sharpening. Although if you need too much of those, then you might as well stick with the original modes since there won't be additional detail to gain. I've considered adding such post work in the script... maybe a later version.

Actually, you can already control denoising with the existing settings (noise bypass, tr2), but sharpness is trickier. Of the two new modes, the first removes halos and adds a little more detail, in this mode you can control sharpness too (at the risk of returning the halos). The second mode is even more precise and adds more detail, but with that precision you lose most of the internal sharpness control. There's also the full lossless mode, where clearly you lose most image control (wouldn't be lossless otherwise).

Regarding post-work, it's also worth noting that edge cleaning is rarely required on the new modes, since much of the halos were being introduced by TGMC. Now you just get the edge effects in the source. However, if you post-sharpen you run the risk of haloing again. I considered post-sharpening Sayaka's vid, but didn't because of this. Many people will not like the new modes because they tend not to be oversharp - some people like oversharpening as a psycho-visual improvement.

As you can see from watching the vids this is no panacea that will make all vids perfect and comparable. There will never be jaw-dropping improvements in quality because existing algorithms are already good. However, it's what you don't see that's important, the rips should have just looked right. I hate the slightly "plastic" look that standard TGMC gives, and that can be in part due to the source, but it's also due to the oversharpening/denoising of TGMC.

I haven't posted comparison shots yet because I'm still developing. I've already improved the algorithm since the Yuri vid.
 

snakeboy

Well-Known Member
Former Staff
Sep 13, 2007
1,749
68
Okay, all ready to put my recently acquired horsepower to the test, I fired this up, but alas, no "Vit" profiles available from the OneClick profile menu. So I figured I'd start over. D/L a fresh copy of MeguIV and fresh copy of MeguVit (meguIVit_0.2.1) but still the same problem? The only profiles I get are "[IV] Best Quality" and "Sandbox" (as per normal MeguIV.)
Yes, I've deleted and extracted new (not just overwritten) the Sandbox folder. And yes, I tried both win7 x64 alternatives. No change. (I'm on Win7 x64). Where am I going wrong? I'm not exactly a noob at this...
Either I'm missing something obvious or I've just gotten a lot stupider since I was here last. (That's probably quite likely actually...) Search didn't turn up anything helpful, so hopefully someone can point me in the direction of a solution because trawling through 51 pages of "504 Gateway Timeout - nginx" errors posts for a clue really isn't an option at 1am with limited time online. I'll be back... ;)
 

isityours

People don't dance no mo'
Sep 27, 2008
2,886
4,135
Okay, all ready to put my recently acquired horsepower to the test, I fired this up, but alas, no "Vit" profiles available from the OneClick profile menu. So I figured I'd start over. D/L a fresh copy of MeguIV and fresh copy of MeguVit (meguIVit_0.2.1) but still the same problem? The only profiles I get are "[IV] Best Quality" and "Sandbox" (as per normal MeguIV.)
Yes, I've deleted and extracted new (not just overwritten) the Sandbox folder. And yes, I tried both win7 x64 alternatives. No change. (I'm on Win7 x64). Where am I going wrong? I'm not exactly a noob at this...
Either I'm missing something obvious or I've just gotten a lot stupider since I was here last. (That's probably quite likely actually...) Search didn't turn up anything helpful, so hopefully someone can point me in the direction of a solution because trawling through 51 pages of "504 Gateway Timeout - nginx" errors posts for a clue really isn't an option at 1am with limited time online. I'll be back... ;)

ive been using 1.0.1.1 + 0.2.1 (mostly without incident) for quite a while now and this is the first time ive seen this problem posted (there is nothing in the 51 timeouts pages that i know of. you dont get any [Vit] settings from the 'one-click' or from the main page? that is strange. of course im in no position to help you but im interested to see what the problem was when you do.
what does the version number in the top left of the main window say? mine says MeguIVit 0.2.1.0 as i assume it should.
 

snakeboy

Well-Known Member
Former Staff
Sep 13, 2007
1,749
68
what does the version number in the top left of the main window say? mine says MeguIVit 0.2.1.0 as i assume it should.

That's what's odd, it doesn't. It says: "meguIV (MeGUI Mid) 1.0.1.1". It somehow seems to "ignore" the new sandbox folder. I am absolutely certain I've erased it and replaced it with the one in the meguIVit_0.2.1.zip file.

Usually I run meguIV off the root directory, ie C:\MeguiV\meguIV.exe so I tried moving it elsewhere (desktop and program files (x86)) just in case. No change.

I don't suppose this could have anything to do with the fact that my C: (and D:) drives are SSD's, could it? For the sake of speed I am now trying to confine all "programs" to the SSD's, but I'm going to be hooking up some SATA3 drives later this evening and will try running it off there and report back if there's any change.

-snake