8.8 Richter earthquake hits Japan: Tsunami, nuclear meltdown, many dead

[spikier]

umm, guys, i was just simply replying to a comment posted in this thread.

I'm sorry if anyone felt offended, but, i didn't want any opinions from anyone telling me what i should or should not say (sorry, lowleggy). i am not in a good mood; to be told what i shouldn't be talking about. i love japan, and its people. i don't have to visit or live in the country in order to love it. I've studied japan. I've studied the Japanese people. I've watched countless videos of japan. I've seen anime. I've read manga. I've watched their movies & shows. i know the bad & the good about that country.
all in all: I LOVE THAT COUNTRY.

so when people criticize the country that i love, they make an enemy out of me.

those hypocrites on that site that i was so called "bashing", deserved every bit of what i said. i spoke nothing but the truth (freedom of tamed speech). am i violating AO rules or something?. if not, please guys, don't tell me what to say; especially if what i say is 'tamed' (better than what i wanted to say).

no disrespect to anyone, but the hypocrites.

I'm still praying for japan; praying to my, loving god.

please, japan, please, pull through.

 

[lowleg26]

those hypocrites on that site that i was so called "bashing", deserved every bit of what i said. i spoke nothing but the truth (freedom of tamed speech). am i violating AO rules or something?

Spikey, check the link that guy posted. That site is a parody site. They aren't an actual religious sect. Its fake. Not real. Its all satire meant to poke fun at the overzealous.

Also, the bulk of your post was a general criticism of Christianity, and not a rebuttal to specific things said by any group regarding the disaster. Not exactly in line with the thread topic.

If you'd like to continue a discussion on that topic, please PM me and I'd be happy to converse with you. Lets try to reserve this thread for news, updates, and questions about the disaster. Of course, expressions of sympathy are welcome, too (goes without saying, really).

--

In regards to the disaster, I've now heard/read in several sources that they're trying to get a power line that can get electricity to the cooling units up and running (thanks to uk21 for verifying that British news sources were also saying this).

The time frame is still up in the air, though. Has anyone heard anything more specific? uzzled:

 

[spikier]

thanks. glad its not real. but, that's besides the point, lowleggy.

its not funny, its downright wrong!. making fun of 'death' is wrong.

and it still doesn't change the fact that most religious people are indeed thinking the way i said they do.

well, I'm done talking about this subject.

i wanna focus on japan, now. and not religious people. i have my legit reasons as to why i despise most of them.

lets just forget all about what I've said. I'm pretty sure most of you have by now.

whenever i get angry people see a side of me they shouldn't see. i thought i learned to control my anger by now; i guess i haven't yet.

I'll just focus on making more small donations to japan (since i don't have that much money at the moment).

 

[Ceewan]

More Christian bashing. I am offended of course but I will get over it. We chose to die in the coliseum in Caesars' Rome rather than renounce our religion; a few more insensitive, rude, callous, thoughtless and idiotic comments are nothing we will not survive.

Let us try to keep ontopic here.

I am in awe that a dam can be blamed for this? How could the Three Gorges Dam be responsible for earthquakes?

 

[bologna]

We chose to die in the coliseum in Caesars' Rome rather than renounce our religion

The colloseum was built long after caesar's death and christians were never killed there. But I agree with your overall message: Christians are beyond persuasion.

:evil:

Sorry for continuing the offtopic thread, but such is the lack of "new" news on this subject of the tsunami-quake-meltdown.
Attached smiling kids were rescued a couple of days ago :grassdance:

 

[Ceewan]

The colloseum was built long after caesar's death and christians were never killed there.

I never said the coliseum was built during the time of Julius Ceasar, I was only referring to a time and place. All roman emperors were referred to as Ceasar. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesar_(title)) Thank you for your kind comments though.

The first of the Christian Martyrs at the Colosseum was believed to be Saint Ignatius. Ignatius was the Bishop of Antioch. In 107 AD the Emperor Trajan came to Antioch and forced the Christians to choose between the Pagan Roman gods and death. Ignatius refused and the emperor condemned him to death by being torn to pieces by wild beasts at Rome "damnatio ad bestia". Ignatius travelled to Rome, guarded by soldiers, and showed no fear of being devoured by lions in the Roman Colosseum. The wild beasts left nothing of his body, except a few bones. The bones were secretly retrieved from the Colosseum and returned Antioch, until their removal to the Church of St. Clement at Rome, in 637.

______________________________________________________________

Nice picture bologna. I will take any good news regarding this horrid event.

 

[lowleg26]

It seems that officials in the US have seen fit to issue their own warning regarding evacuating the area around the power plant, claiming that everyone in a 50 mile radius should evacuate.

Despite what anyone may think about the Japanese governments handling of the situation, Its extremely poor form (and potentially dangerous) for people halfway across the globe to be issuing instructions that contradict the ones given by the Japanese. I can imagine the kind of vitriol that would arise if the shoe was on the other foot.

Its one thing to issue statements saying that citizens should avoid travel to a certain area, its quite another thing to publicly dismiss warnings from another country's government and issue your own. Sheesh! I think officials in Japan who have access to all the information are in a much better position to be calling the shots than a bunch of armchair physicists making speculations from halfway across the planet.

With that said, are people in Japan aware of the contradictory statements, or was the statement met with a collective, "whatever!" Are any Japanese officials angry at the news? uzzled:

EDIT: Like Ceewan, I'm also wondering about how the Three Gorges Dam would increase tectonic plate activity? My spidey-sense tells me that isn't possible, but I'm no geologist. Any sources for info?

 

[aquamarine]

Well that's a nice gesture. Two radio stations, two TV stations, 3 friends in 2 countries and my family have all offered me a flight out of here. Now if only my studio didn't have it's grand opening in the new location next month. God damnit...

 

[guy]

Its one thing to issue statements saying that citizens should avoid travel to a certain area, its quite another thing to publicly dismiss warnings from another country's government and issue your own.

The evacuation warning is directed at US nationals in the area, not at Japanese nationals. And the wider evacuation zone is not an indication of greater risk, just that were the US presented with the same data that Japanese officials currently have, they would simply recommend the wider evacuation area. It does not mean there is more radiation; US Geiger counters are not reporting more radiation than Japanese Geiger counters.

For reference: a number of scientists have said that in Chernobyl, a 30km evacuation radius would have been adequate; the casualties resulted largely from the Soviet union trying to keep the crisis secret, which led people to remain in the affected zone and to ingest contaminated food/water. In the case of Three Mile Island, scientists showed that even with the amount of radiation released, the increase in occurrence of cancer would be so statistically insignificant that not even a single additional person would develop cancer from radiation. Compared to TMI, the Fukushima reactors were not and are not even running (completely shut down/SCRAMmed) during the series of coolant accidents in the past few days.

In the Tokyo area, radiation levels have not increased significantly. Dozens of monitors set up around the Kanto region have been reporting less than 1μSv, which is about 100,000 times less than the hourly amount which would cause health problems.

Which is kinda funny, because France has already issued its own evacuation warning to French nationals, telling them to gtfo of Tokyo. That action is more reckless, because instigating fear can cause collateral damage with nothing to do with radiation (mobs rushing to get out of the city, people getting trampled, etc); and it can also hurt rescue efforts (people buying up all the gasoline, leaving none for ambulances and rescue/aid vehicles trying to get supplies up to the tsunami region).

The only people in real danger of radiation poisoning are the workers, fire fighters, police, and military personnel working at the plant to keep the situation under control.



Meanwhile, the number of earthquake/tsunami casualties has officially risen above 5,000. Remember, a casualty in Japan is only made "official" when authorities have collected and identified a body; there are still several thousand people who are reported unaccounted for, and possibly even more than that who have not been yet reported.

 

[CoolKevin]

Well that's a nice gesture. Two radio stations, two TV stations, 3 friends in 2 countries and my family have all offered me a flight out of here. Now if only my studio didn't have it's grand opening in the new location next month. God damnit...

but all said and done your heart is in Tokyo, I am sure it is not just the opening of the new studio, you feel at home there,
Good luck which ever way you decide,

 

[lowleg26]

The evacuation warning is directed at US nationals in the area, not at Japanese nationals. And the wider evacuation zone is not an indication of greater risk, just that were the US presented with the same data that Japanese officials currently have, they would simply recommend the wider evacuation area. It does not mean there is more radiation; US Geiger counters are not reporting more radiation than Japanese Geiger counters.

I don't disagree with anything you've said, but it doesn't seem like media outlets on our end are taking the time to make those distinctions. When I first heard about the US zone of evacuation, it was just lumped in with the other zones in a very matter-of-fact fashion (eg. "Here's the initial zone of evacuation, the zone in which citizens have been told to stay indoors, and here's the zone that our officials have suggested be evacuated.") Maybe my ire would have been better directed at the "news" sources I've already been critical of.

Much has been made on this side of the pacific about Japanese "secrecy" and it almost seems like the media is trying to manufacture a mistrust of info from Japanese government and news agencies. Speculation from American "experts", on the other hand, is treated with the utmost reverence.

But perhaps I'm reading too much into it. :dunno:

 

[guy]

I don't disagree with anything you've said, but it doesn't seem like media outlets on our end are taking the time to make those distinctions.

Of course not, most of them are primarily interested in selling more papers and making more money.

http://www.japanprobe.com/2011/03/17/u-k-newspaper-get-out-of-tokyo-now/

 

[guy]

Since there may be some members who have trouble collecting information due to English media focusing on "doom and gloom", here are some resources.

Radiation maps, showing the location and readings of radiation monitors around the Kanto area:

http://goo.gl/R5OU9
http://ht.ly/4exnv
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16653989/NuclPlants/index.html
http://www.j-cast.com/2011/03/16090608.html

Rolling blackout maps and schedules (updated daily):

http://www.google.co.jp/intl/ja/crisisresponse/japanquake2011_power.html
http://map.yahoo.co.jp/pl?fa=whm&group=0
http://teiden.sou-sou.net

JR East train schedules affected by rolling blackouts:

http://traininfo.jreast.co.jp/train_info/kanto.aspx

For private train companies, please refer to their main pages. You can also use Ekitan, which provides some basic information about affected schedules.



For reference: I'm in Chiba (basically a suburb near Tokyo, slightly closer to Fukushima). Our current radiation levels have averaged 0.037μSv over the past six days (peaked at 0.313μSv for just one hour). By comparison, the radiation levels must reach 100,000μSv before anyone is in danger of radiation poisoning. And before the earthquake, our region had a radiation level of 0.023μSv.

 

[Rollyco]

Compared to TMI, the Fukushima reactors were not and are not even running (completely shut down/SCRAMmed) during the series of coolant accidents in the past few days.

Just because they are shutdown doesn't mean there can't be a major disaster. For example, if proper cooling is not sustained, overheated fuel will melt and accumulate at the bottom of a pressure vessel / storage pool. If that debris exceeds critical mass, the nuclear chain reaction will restart. And according to U.S. studies, Mark I reactor containment vessels (as used in Fukushima) are particularly vulnerable to a breach in recriticality scenarios.

1μSv, which is about 100,000 times less than the hourly amount which would cause health problems.

Yes, that is very low. But just to clarify: all ionizing radiation is harmful, and the incidence of tumors is directly correlated with exposure. It's called the Linear no-threshold model, and it's the internationally recognized statistical model for predicting biological damage. There is plenty of evidence for it at levels above 10mSv.

For example, imagine an otherwise perfectly healthy population living in a 10mSv environment. There are 20 reported cases of cancer a year. The model predicts that a 100mSv environment would result in 200 cases of cancer a year.

Use of the word "threshold" is disingenuous. It's better to say "statistically insignificant." I believe that for TEPCO crews working the Daiichi plant, the risk is not insignificant.

 

[guy]

Of course, it's already a bad situation, and it has the potential to get a lot worse (depending on if TEPCO really is a bunch of incompetent people), but right now it's not as bad as a number of media outlets claim it is. What we need is more people getting those reactors (and spent fuel pools) under control, and less people scaring the shit out of everyone else.

 

[Rollyco]

It's fine to be hopeful and trust the TEPCO staff, which I'm sure are doing everything they can. And you have to avoid panic, too.

But yesterday they announced that the possibility of recriticality was "not zero", so... yeah. Any time you hear that on the news, it's going to scare people. It's just reality.

 

[Rollyco]

Fukushima Governor's Desperate Plea for Help

[youtube]_4J2XuUslog[/youtube]

Fukushima Governor Yuhei Sato sent an urgent plea for help to Prime Minister Naoto Kan. This is his plea:

Because of the ongoing nuclear emergency, distributors have begun to refuse deliveries to even areas outside the exclusion zone and the zone where residents are advised to stay indoors. For instance, tanker trucks have turned back before Miharu-machi, and deliveries only come to Hitachi, not to Iwaki City. We have a serious emergency here, unable to obtain fuels, food, medicines, and other daily necessities.

Many refugees from the disaster have fled here, adding to the population of local residents. It has become extremely difficult to support daily life of citizens and to maintain medical practice.

I desperately ask distributors to truly understand the situation of this area and to cooperate with us.

And I ask the national government to provide accurate, detailed information and explanation to all distributors as well as citizens and to make an all-out effort to provide us with necessary support.

 

[Pikeman992]

Dominik Petzold - A Song for you - (Japan Earthquake & Tsunami Song 2011.03.11)



[youtube]y4tCi1if_Jg[/youtube]

 

[aquamarine]

Dunno if you guys have been getting different news, but we haven't heard anything new or interesting other than news from CBC and CNN that the US govn't is chartering flights out of Japan to Dubai. Not sure why Dubai, but that's where they took off to. One family that I work with (from Afghanistan actually) took their seven children and left for Dubai.

And if you want to see what it looked like from the Sky Tree area during the quake, here's a video of it. Notice the cables that are dangling 600 meters down whipping back and forth...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me7Sh_oUZBk

 

[Rollyco]

Brave soul to be standing under that big structure during the quake...

Foreigner exodus at Narita airport:
[youtube]2SItn8R0RbE[/youtube]