Decensored? Is this true?

hitman007

New Member
Jun 20, 2008
356
3
From what I know, unless the original copy without mosaic is "accidentally" leaked out, there's no way to demosaic a movie.
100% sure about that.
 

Amerikajinmusume

ヽ(´ー`)人(´ω`)ノ
Jun 25, 2008
65
2
There are billions of products on the Japanese market that purport to "remove" mosaics from JAV videos. Mosaics however are not caused by any kind of special program or tracking on the DVD. Every frame and image has been blurred or pixelated. There is nothing to "remove" or "disable" as the original image itself has been physically altered.

Quoted from the first website that you linked:

Recently a new breakthrough in technology has allowed certain companies to "remove" the standard matrix censoring found in most JAV videos.

These "certain companies" are using a "technological breakthrough" called "distribution rights." They purchased the rights to distribute this material overseas in countries where adult material does not need to be censored. They were likely provided with an uncensored video or the original raw footage by the producer upon request.

If these companies did possess such a technology, it would still be necessary for them to purchase the rights to the edited material if they wanted to sell it. Which makes more sense: 1.) That they would purchase the rights to edited video and then go to the effort of developing some "breakthrough technology" to remove mosaics, or 2.) that they would purchase the rights to the original raw footage from the producer?

They tell you this hyperbole about "breakthrough technology" so that you will buy this ancient 1980's JAV and overlook the fact that the actresses in it are as old as your Mom now. That and they want to prepare you for the eventual offer of your own "home de-mosaic kit" once you reach the checkout.
 

ncdx

New Member
Sep 14, 2007
24
1
willysworkshop is a similar site (butt ugly, probably dead) for stills. It's claimed that some (old, pre digital) censoring techniques rearrange the image, keeping most of the information. This process can then be reversed, yielding (mostly) the original image. I've got an uncensored AV where there's (for want of a better word) a lens effect appears where the mosaic would be.

If it's possible to get rights to old AV, why has no-one picked up new stuff? Uncensored AV companies (e.g. Red Hot) are based outside the US. I'd assumed there was some odd Japanese law that prevented Japanese made AV being shown uncensored anywhere.
 

Amerikajinmusume

ヽ(´ー`)人(´ω`)ノ
Jun 25, 2008
65
2
willysworkshop is a similar site (butt ugly, probably dead) for stills. It's claimed that some (old, pre digital) censoring techniques rearrange the image, keeping most of the information. This process can then be reversed, yielding (mostly) the original image.

Assuming that there was no permutation with the "blocks" of pixelation and the exact same sequence of arrangement was used throughout the entire video, you would still need to rearrange the blocks manually for each individual frame. This is not something that you would be able to "automate" with magical video editing software of some kind because the area of effect would change with every new camera angle/scene (as well as during the normal course of movement between the actors). Assuming that this type of censoring did exist in a few older JAV, it would only benefit a person seeking to capture a few still images... such as in the case of the website you described above.

However...

I'm very skeptical of this story as I have never seen or heard of JAV where detail existed within the censor blocks themselves. The pixelation effect seen in JAV involves solid blocks of color. Newer JAV appears more detailed simply because these blocks have been made smaller, so that an area being censored consists of 20x20 blocks. This gives the viewer some impression of detail compared to older JAV where censorship of the same area might involve at the most 5x5 (large) blocks.

I have never seen a single JAV -- old or new -- where these blocks did not consist of solid color. In fact it sounds more complicated to rearrange existing blocks of data (consisting of many types of colors) into some type of convoluted pattern than it does to merely apply a filter over an area that compresses the area of effect into 10 possible colors.

So without seeing it for myself I'm going to say that this sounds bogus. The fact of the matter is that 99.9% of uncensored JAV you come across online today was either 1.) leaked illegally or 2.) sold outside of Japan where uncensored adult video is legal.

If it's possible to get rights to old AV, why has no-one picked up new stuff? Uncensored AV companies (e.g. Red Hot) are based outside the US. I'd assumed there was some odd Japanese law that prevented Japanese made AV being shown uncensored anywhere.

There are tons of websites in English dedicated to JAV. Many of the videos they offer are uncensored. As for Red Hot, I don't know about the company specifically, but why do you assume that there only reason for being based int he US would be a law banning the exportation of adult material from Japan (which you do not cite)? I think it would be safer to assume that they are based in the US because of friendlier taxation laws if anything. There could be any number of reasons as to why they are based in the US.

I am not aware of any Japanese law that bans the export/sale of uncensored adult video in countries where it is legal. One may exist, but I am unaware of it, and Japan's adult industry is after all one of its largest exports...
 

ncdx

New Member
Sep 14, 2007
24
1
Assuming that there was no permutation with the "blocks" of pixelation and the exact same sequence of arrangement was used throughout the entire video, you would still need to rearrange the blocks manually for each individual frame. This is not something that you would be able to "automate" with magical video editing software of some kind because the area of effect would change with every new camera angle/scene (as well as during the normal course of movement between the actors). Assuming that this type of censoring did exist in a few older JAV, it would only benefit a person seeking to capture a few still images... such as in the case of the website you described above.
I'm confident that automatically detecting a censored area could be done, and fairly easily if the blocks are solid colours.

Googling around, supposedly decensoring equipment works using the changes in each colour block as the picture moves to reverse engineer the original picture. Sounds like a scam to me, but then I cannot explain the screenshot I posted. There are Internet reports of Japan-made decensoring equipment (e.g. Olympia DV-9900) as good, and as not good. There's a couple going on eBay at the moment, and seller's feedback looks legit.

Clicky This may be what they are actually doing.

There are also Internet reports of AV companies deliberately using reversible censoring to avoid censorship laws.
 

desioner

Sustaining L.I.F.E.
Staff member
Super Moderator
Nov 22, 2006
4,880
50,751
hitman007 said:
From what I know, unless the original copy without mosaic is "accidentally" leaked out, there's no way to demosaic a movie.
100% sure about that.
This is true, as the video frame by frame is physically altered. The technology breakthrough that the site proclaimed is bullshit. Companies retain the original videos in their archive and could easily provide companies with the material for distribution etc overseas.
ncdx said:
I'm confident that automatically detecting a censored area could be done, and fairly easily if the blocks are solid colours.
I agree with you on the point of an application/hardware configuration being able to detect the censor mosaic but I highly doubt it'd be able to alter it enough to look actually uncensored. Not having seen the AV you mentioned and seeing the screen shot it looks like a photoshop job. But if it's a video I'd be very interested to see a clip of it.
desioner
 

Amerikajinmusume

ヽ(´ー`)人(´ω`)ノ
Jun 25, 2008
65
2
I'm confident that automatically detecting a censored area could be done, and fairly easily if the blocks are solid colours.

No offense, but what first-hand knowledge of video editing is this confidence being based upon? The type of automation you just described would be anything but "fairly easy" to accomplish, if not impossible to achieve with JAV. We're theorizing a formula that would work in real-time on something that moves as much as video. Such a formula would therefore need to be absolutely perfect. No formula can be applied to an imperfect signal (at least not universally and/or in real-time), so what would be required is a purely digital signal. DVDs however use MPEG2 compression (and don't even get me started on VHS).

So, assuming that you did possess some magical "breakthrough technology" capable of removing mosaics from censored JAV, no formula could detect and apply it to a censored analog video either automatically or in real time. This is something we can't even theorize about doing due to the technological limitations of JAV/DVDs. Consider it yet another strike against the potential legitimacy of purported de-mosaic kits/software.

Googling around, supposedly decensoring equipment works using the changes in each colour block as the picture moves to reverse engineer the original picture.

How would this be done though? How would you produce a detailed image from a single (or several) random RGB values? This makes no sense from a technical standpoint and a lot more information is needed. This also brings us back to the formula issue described above, as we're still dealing with an analog signal that doesn't have exact values. Without exact values then no algorithm can be applied to "reverse engineer" the image using the new data that was somehow magically pulled from the ass of a single RGB value. LOL

Let's say that the signal was 100% digital. Then you could know that on frame 354 at coordinates 0533,1024 the RGB values are this, this, and this. At that point you could apply this magical technology that somehow manages to produce new, complex data from a single RGB value. But if you wanted to apply this to some random JAV DVD that you own then you would still need to have the exact values to do it, which an analog recording does not possess. Analog is imperfect and varies, which eliminates the possibility of a "universal" de-mosaic kit.

Sounds like a scam to me, but then I cannot explain the screenshot I posted.

What you can't explain is how a still image claimed to be from a censored JAV was supposedly de-mosaiced using the junk science methods described by an anonymous webmaster on the Internet. In that case I can't explain it either, but it doesn't mean that I'm somehow more willing to believe it.

Any number of explanations can exist for this picture. If the author/website didn't or couldn't explain (in detail) how this supposed de-censoring was achieved, then why should you willingly accept such a story as the origin of this picture? A more likely explanation is that the image was taken from an uncensored JAV and altered in PhotoShop to be given the appearance of a de-censored image; probably as a way of lending credence to a specific de-mosaic product the webmaster wished to sell.

The more we "theorize" this stuff, the more we remove ourselves from reality and technical discourse into the realm of fantasy and wishful thinking. Trust me, I would like more than anyone else to see some nice un-censored, un-circumcised Japanese penis in JAV, but none of the methods described above could realistically be achieved. Entertaining any idea to the contrary is in my opinion buying into the marketing of these de-mosaic websites/products hook, line, and sinker. Don't waste your hopes/money.
 

wotaku

wota-kun
Mar 8, 2008
165
0
Well I have some experience in writing bots for video games and this is one of the 3 main techniques used, with packet analysis and dll injection (function / event hooks) to detect changes. You can easily look for ranges not just a specific RGB value and still do it... well not in real time for a technical definition of the term (the video doesn't run in real time either) but fast enough to keep up. Yet that part is irrelevant, if you knew about video editing you'd know it doesn't have to be done at same frame rate as the video unless you're applying a playback filter which is not what we're talking about.

That said you can forget about digital because the information is lost and it's not recoverable. In analog it seems at least theoretically possible if some old videos were only censored by moving pixels around, though you'd want to do shape (or lack thereof, finding blocks where there is no continuity and the image looks like 'noise') analysis more than specific color detection in this case. It doesn't need to be perfect to work, an image with some (potentially barely visible) artifacts is better than a mosaic and in that case you could digitise it first or indeed used specialized hardware (yes, it's possible to do editing on analog, just a lot harder and more expensive.) Knowing the pattern used to rearrange the pixels would then allow you to move them back to their original position, reanalyze for noise and test for continuity, maybe using manual input for error correction if necessary. Yet it doesn't sound very practical for reasons mentioned in this thread and due to the fact that it would only work on a very limited subset of JAVs: this does look like more of a scam than anything to me.

Entertaining any idea to the contrary is in my opinion buying into the marketing of these de-mosaic websites/products hook, line, and sinker.

Still, I don't think dismissing an idea before evaluating it is very rational and I don't think there's any need to be so arrogant about it.

Trust me, I would like more than anyone else to see some nice un-censored, un-circumcised Japanese penis in JAV, but none of the methods described above could realistically be achieved.

Funny, the first time I saw a censored JAV I thought they did it because they didn't like seing dicks while watching porn (yes, I was young and ignorant.) Of course I scratched that theory when I realised they censored the girls' parts too :perhaps:
 

xeruel

黒英雄伝説
Mar 22, 2008
591
2
The more we "theorize" this stuff, the more we remove ourselves from reality and technical discourse into the realm of fantasy and wishful thinking. Trust me, I would like more than anyone else to see some nice un-censored, un-circumcised Japanese penis in JAV, but none of the methods described above could realistically be achieved. Entertaining any idea to the contrary is in my opinion buying into the marketing of these de-mosaic websites/products hook, line, and sinker. Don't waste your hopes/money.

you know amerikajin san, I'm quite fascinated by your posts in any topic, the way you presented your POV seems the most logic to me while putting yourself in the way most of us feel :evillaugh:

I totally agree that we shouldn't waste our hopes/money on something not clearly proven/working unless japan law was changed, we're not going to see our favorite JAV actress without mosaic but a man gotta have some dream to hold on....maybe someone got a friend who was JAV producer could get it for us :moe:

Or we should stick to tokyo hot,red hot,etc series if mosaic was a major concern :pissed: and we should realize that these topic has been going for ages yet nothing changed much for top actress but we got partial answer in form of series I mentioned above.
 

thirdy

New Member
Feb 21, 2008
11
0
woah, nice discussion everyone. Ok, I'll stop wishing for lead to turn into gold. But the reason I wished that there was Decensoring because almost every hot girl on every thread I see here are all censored, like this one. All the SOD and these jav game shows where you can truly see Japan and enjoy more than the usual porn jav.(oh yeah and those octopus I saw!) So that's why newbies like me will still continue the dream :D
But thanks everyone, this one helped me
 

ncdx

New Member
Sep 14, 2007
24
1
Not having seen the AV you mentioned and seeing the screen shot it looks like a photoshop job. But if it's a video I'd be very interested to see a clip of it.
desioner

It's a screenshot taken by me of an hour-long video downloaded over either ed2k or fasttrack ages ago.

I'll upload a clip to rabbitshit later.
 

ncdx

New Member
Sep 14, 2007
24
1
Uploaded a clip:

http://www.akiba-online.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19886

Original movie info:
Code:
http://underpink.com/shop/shop.cgi?mode=p_wide&id=826

I don't have the whole movie, looks like I have one VCD of three, but I don't plan to upload it. Need more bandwidth.

Two things to note with respect to this thread:
-The screenshots for the full movie also have the lens effect.
-The lens effect in the posted clip does not always cover the genitals, e.g. at the end as the performers exit. A censor's mosaic would, so it's not been decensored.
 

Amerikajinmusume

ヽ(´ー`)人(´ω`)ノ
Jun 25, 2008
65
2
Well I have some experience in writing bots for video games and this is one of the 3 main techniques used, with packet analysis and dll injection (function / event hooks) to detect changes. You can easily look for ranges not just a specific RGB value and still do it... well not in real time for a technical definition of the term (the video doesn't run in real time either) but fast enough to keep up. Yet that part is irrelevant, if you knew about video editing you'd know it doesn't have to be done at same frame rate as the video unless you're applying a playback filter which is not what we're talking about.

That said you can forget about digital because the information is lost and it's not recoverable. In analog it seems at least theoretically possible if some old videos were only censored by moving pixels around, though you'd want to do shape (or lack thereof, finding blocks where there is no continuity and the image looks like 'noise') analysis more than specific color detection in this case.

The argument here isn't whether it is possible under certain pre-defined and unique conditions, but whether someone can go out and buy a piece of software or equipment on the market today that can be applied to any mosaic pattern and remove it (or rather, reverse engineer the original image). What you describe would hardly be universal in application as it would 1.) require that the mosaic consisted of re-arranged, but otherwise un-altered image data 2.) require new code/programming for every new mosaic and each new video and 3.) still require some modicum of manual work/input. Such a method would therefore not be very practical even if conditions made it possible.

The thing about a block is that the coordinates are known, so software could swap the colors at certain coordinates with the appropriate colors. But that would be video specific, not universal, and the AV studio itself would still need to design it that way specifically and publish the data. I also find this really unlikely in the case of analog video versus digital.

It doesn't need to be perfect to work, an image with some (potentially barely visible) artifacts is better than a mosaic and in that case you could digitise it first or indeed used specialized hardware (yes, it's possible to do editing on analog, just a lot harder and more expensive.) Knowing the pattern used to rearrange the pixels would then allow you to move them back to their original position, reanalyze for noise and test for continuity, maybe using manual input for error correction if necessary. Yet it doesn't sound very practical for reasons mentioned in this thread and due to the fact that it would only work on a very limited subset of JAVs: this does look like more of a scam than anything to me.

All the theorizing in this thread seems to depend on the claim that some JAV, which have yet to be named, supposedly re-arranged raw image data into a pattern to achieve a mosaic effect (which can be re-arranged back into the original image using the methods your describing). But can anyone here provide an example of JAV that actually uses such a method? Every JAV that I have seen uses mosaics consisting of solid colors/single RGB values.

The fallback argument is that this type of mosaic effect was only used with older JAV. This method would have been technologically and economically unfeasible for older AV studios though, if not illegal. The Japanese Supreme Court's interpretation of §175 of the Japanese Criminal Code over the years has found that while the pubic region (and pubic hair) does not need to be fully concealed by bokashi (blurring) or a mosaic, anatomical details cannot be shown. Prior to the early 90's however, pubic hair was not allowed to be shown, and so that entire region of the lower body was garishly censored in older JAV using either bokashi or extremely large mosaic blocks of solid RGB colors.

The possibility of a re-arranging mosaic effect being used therefore seems less likely the further back in time we go to apply it, since the larger mosaic blocks seen in older JAV would have been exposing way too much detail to be legal. This story only sounds believable if we assume that smaller mosaic blocks (such as what you see in present day JAV) were used, but in older JAV they were not.

Could newer JAV employ such a re-arranged mosaic method today? Technically yes, but legally I would say no. I'm no authority on the interpretation of Japanese law obviously, but common sense dictates that if these details remained intact -- albeit rearranged into a convoluted pattern -- it would still violate the wording and spirit of §175. If the AV studio used such a method of censorship fully intending for consumers to remove it then they would also be distributing adult material with the specific intent of violating §175. So, it really seems unlikely from a legal standpoint.

The bottom line is that we don't know of any JAV using this method, and even if one or two yet unnamed videos did use such a method, 99.9% of JAV on the market today does not. So, why are we theorizing anything based off this assumption/claim when it does not apply to any of the JAV people would actually have a desire to de-mosaic? The only answer to the OP is therefore "no."

Still, I don't think dismissing an idea before evaluating it is very rational and I don't think there's any need to be so arrogant about it.

I'm sorry if you interpreted my position as one of arrogance. I'm not trying to sound arrogant; I'm trying to be realistic. If I appear to have an attitude towards some of these arguments it is because I'm very skeptical of the websites making them. The last thing I want to hear about is how somebody readily believed the jargon on one of these websites and was influenced by them to pay some outrageous amount of money to import a bogus "de-mosaic" kit that doesn't work as advertised.

you know amerikajin san, I'm quite fascinated by your posts in any topic, the way you presented your POV seems the most logic to me while putting yourself in the way most of us feel :evillaugh:

LOL thanks... although I'll try to be a bit less "arrogant" in posts if this is the impression I am giving people.

I totally agree that we shouldn't waste our hopes/money on something not clearly proven/working unless japan law was changed, we're not going to see our favorite JAV actress without mosaic but a man gotta have some dream to hold on....maybe someone got a friend who was JAV producer could get it for us :moe:

Seriously it boggles me that an archaic law like this can still exist in Japan today. It is at the heart of the freedom of speech debate there though, so maybe we will see it disappear eventually. At least the interpretation of this law becomes less restrictive every few years.
 

Amerikajinmusume

ヽ(´ー`)人(´ω`)ノ
Jun 25, 2008
65
2
Uploaded a clip:

http://www.akiba-online.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19886

Original movie info:
Code:
http://underpink.com/shop/shop.cgi?mode=p_wide&id=826

I don't have the whole movie, looks like I have one VCD of three, but I don't plan to upload it. Need more bandwidth.

Two things to note with respect to this thread:
-The screenshots for the full movie also have the lens effect.
-The lens effect in the posted clip does not always cover the genitals, e.g. at the end as the performers exit. A censor's mosaic would, so it's not been decensored.

The site it was originally being sold on appears to sell mostly un-censored material. This video is advertised as being in the "schoolgirl" genre. More than likely it began as an un-censored video and they slapped a goofy, but unobstructive lens over the naughty bits to market it as "de-censored" and heighten the appeal by making it appear more forbidden.

Without seeing the original censored video in other words (assuming one exists) it really is difficult to tell anything from the video. Even if an original censored version exists it wouldn't necessarily mean that this studio "de-censored" it either. I could really see this being a common gimmick/device used to make some tamer AV stuff seem more naughty and appealing.

EDIT: BTW thanks for the video! :evillaugh:
 

ncdx

New Member
Sep 14, 2007
24
1
Could newer JAV employ such a re-arranged mosaic method today? Technically yes, but legally I would say no. I'm no authority on the interpretation of Japanese law obviously, but common sense dictates that if these details remained intact -- albeit rearranged into a convoluted pattern -- it would still violate the wording and spirit of §175. If the AV studio used such a method of censorship fully intending for consumers to remove it then they would also be distributing adult material with the specific intent of violating §175. So, it really seems unlikely from a legal standpoint.
There's a Japanese program called FLMask which makes reversible obscuring on stills that was used to post pornographic images to Usenet. I'm not sure what law enforcement made of it.
 

Amerikajinmusume

ヽ(´ー`)人(´ω`)ノ
Jun 25, 2008
65
2
There's a Japanese program called FLMask which makes reversible obscuring on stills that was used to post pornographic images to Usenet. I'm not sure what law enforcement made of it.

I found the following interesting article when Googling FLMask:

http://joi.ito.com/weblog/1999/11/01/japans-cops-are.html

The case involved the trial of a young man who had written a piece of software called FLMASK. FLMASK was a clever tool that allowed certain parts of graphic images to be scrambled into mosaics. The tool also allowed people to remove the mosaics, and the graphic image creator could add a password if desired. Obviously, it's a great tool for people running porn sites. Hardcore images could be uploaded, casual viewers would see suitably censored pictures, and anyone interested enough could see the goodies (presumably upon payment of a fee). The police didn't like this technical workaround of the porn laws, so they decided that FLMASK or no, a porn site was a porn site. They also decided that even if the site was offshore, it didn't matter. To make their point, they arrested and convicted one Mr. Maekawa who was operating a porn site offshore using FLMASK. That was rather disturbing for me, but when the Osaka prosecutors went after the author of FLMASK for having a link from his Web page to Mr. Maekawa's site (a user of FLMASK), under the premise that a link constitutes the running of a nonphysical pornography establishment (in Japanese mutempo fuzoku eigyo-the regulations regarding what constitutes mutempo fuzoku eigyo were expanded to include pornography on the Internet in April), it all became much too strange for me.

It provides some insight into just how strictly the authorities uphold this law. :coldsweat:
 

omarbabilonia

New Member
Oct 9, 2008
4
0
if you are looking for uncensored movies why dont you search for "media freak city" in google... this company sells japanese porn movies uncensored and are not bad movies at all...
 

kenjenks

New Member
Jan 5, 2021
1
0
I have been watching JAV for a while now "censored and uncensored".
In light of these uncensored videos doing the rounds etc. etc. isn't it about time that the Japanese authorities woke up and smelled the coffee and completely removed all the censoring legislation
 

Albert Tatlock

Active Member
Sep 28, 2014
133
78
I have been watching JAV for a while now "censored and uncensored".
In light of these uncensored videos doing the rounds etc. etc. isn't it about time that the Japanese authorities woke up and smelled the coffee and completely removed all the censoring legislation

Japan will be hosting the Olympic Games. It should have hosted them in 2020, but due to Covid it was postponed, nevertheless the games will be hosted there at some time. Given that, and as the rest of the world believes that Japan is full of perverted paedophiles, it would not be a good idea to see Western media stories about Japan removing censorship within their "adult" industry. Unless you know about Japanese AV and how it is censored, you may well be led to believe that the Japanese are cleaning up their act by censoring all hardcore porn and only producing simulated sex masked by a mosaic. Imagine the uproar in the bible belt if the mosaic were to disappear.

So in a nutshell, the mosaic is here to stay I'm afraid.

By the way, the "decensoring" application does exist, it's called JavPlayer, but it doesn't actually remove the pixels, what it does, with varying degrees of success, is use AI to rebuild what the pixillated area should look like based on a set of models. In a nutshell, you don't see your favourite actresses genitals, you see what an AI thinks they should look like.... albeit a bit blurry and wobbly.