70% of Japanese inns without foreign guests wish to keep it that way
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What a marvelous discussion. I've only been to Japan once, many years ago, for only two days, and never left Tokyo. That adds up to approximately zero experience in this specific area.
I have, however, been living as an American ex-pat in another nearby Asian country for nearly 3 years. I also lived in a European country for 2 years many moons ago. My perceptions on how people view tourists and foreigners has been evolving for over 25 years.
Language and customs are the issue I believe, not discrimination or xenophobia. I recently moved out into the countryside: when my neighbor found out my language skills (well, in his language, at least) were poor, he said that would be a problem for him. What he really meant (my brother was doing the translation/interpretation for me) was more like "Aw fuck, this is going to be a major pain in the ass living next to you." He's turning out to be a wee bit of a pest, but that's only from my viewpoint: it's my responsibility as a foreigner to learn the language and customs first, so I can properly communicate my own customs to my neighbors in order that we collectively figure out how to get along.
In contrast, my neighbors back in the big city I'd been in before were exceedingly friendly and accomodating of my language difficulties. In every developed country in the world there are stark differences between rural and urban people, culture, customs, and even language (dialects, cadence, idioms, etc.)
There are also big differences in the kinds of tourists a rural/urban host might accomodate. Many are self-aware, polite, sensitive and curious. And it seems just as many are complete jackasses. I was mugged right outside a hostel in Brussels by some punks. That event turned me off to Brussels, hostels, Belgium and even Belgians to some degree. That's very narrow-minded of me, but it's visceral, limbic, and part of human nature. I could totally understand if rural ryokan owners would avoid trouble by avoiding foreigners based on even one bad experience, or even rumors and heresay.
I've got a friend in the US who's lived for a few years in Osaka, most recently with his wife for a year while DJing. They immersed themselves in the culture, and made many friends of all ages. If they'd gone to the countryside and tried out a ryokan, I'm sure all parties would have had a good time.
I guess I'd side with the owners of the ryokans: send me the nice tourists and their money, but can we please find a way to make the jackasses stay home and watch reality TV?
I have, however, been living as an American ex-pat in another nearby Asian country for nearly 3 years. I also lived in a European country for 2 years many moons ago. My perceptions on how people view tourists and foreigners has been evolving for over 25 years.
Language and customs are the issue I believe, not discrimination or xenophobia. I recently moved out into the countryside: when my neighbor found out my language skills (well, in his language, at least) were poor, he said that would be a problem for him. What he really meant (my brother was doing the translation/interpretation for me) was more like "Aw fuck, this is going to be a major pain in the ass living next to you." He's turning out to be a wee bit of a pest, but that's only from my viewpoint: it's my responsibility as a foreigner to learn the language and customs first, so I can properly communicate my own customs to my neighbors in order that we collectively figure out how to get along.
In contrast, my neighbors back in the big city I'd been in before were exceedingly friendly and accomodating of my language difficulties. In every developed country in the world there are stark differences between rural and urban people, culture, customs, and even language (dialects, cadence, idioms, etc.)
There are also big differences in the kinds of tourists a rural/urban host might accomodate. Many are self-aware, polite, sensitive and curious. And it seems just as many are complete jackasses. I was mugged right outside a hostel in Brussels by some punks. That event turned me off to Brussels, hostels, Belgium and even Belgians to some degree. That's very narrow-minded of me, but it's visceral, limbic, and part of human nature. I could totally understand if rural ryokan owners would avoid trouble by avoiding foreigners based on even one bad experience, or even rumors and heresay.
I've got a friend in the US who's lived for a few years in Osaka, most recently with his wife for a year while DJing. They immersed themselves in the culture, and made many friends of all ages. If they'd gone to the countryside and tried out a ryokan, I'm sure all parties would have had a good time.
I guess I'd side with the owners of the ryokans: send me the nice tourists and their money, but can we please find a way to make the jackasses stay home and watch reality TV?
This indeed is the issue in most of the cases, although if you're interested in maintaining your business what's wrong in trying to adapt a little too?
This applies to anyone whose story is that of an ex-pat or emigrant. Yet applying the same principle to casual foreign tourist might pose some difficulties.
This doesn't speak too well of the way they conduct their business again, does it? For, for every negative story you could come up with one or more positive experiences to share.
Now we're being picky, and we might - as I mentioned in my previous post - be left empty handed soon.[...] I guess I'd side with the owners of the ryokans: send me the nice tourists and their money, but can we please find a way to make the jackasses stay home and watch reality TV?
Overall, as a foreigner living here, I'm still finding myself on the opposite side of the barricade: in my opinion, the ryokan owners in discussion (so mind you, never all of them) are nothing more than small, local entrepreneurs with a lack of foresight in business that reflects their small-world thinking. Well, they should just try a little harder...
I can attest* that the overwhelming majority of foreign tourists I happened to meet since living here are absolutely lovable, open minded to and fascinated by the various "beautifully strange" local customs and experiences. You don't come to Japan if you're not planning to free your mind a little and taste the culture.
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* I used to work in the hotel business
Same here.. I was thinking of getting a job and a pretty Japanese girlfriend there.. Although, I have no idea if the rule applies to all foreigners.
erhaps:As someone who's lived here for the past two years... Yeah, good luck getting in. ^_^
Your options are either to enter a japanese university to learn japanese, or as an english teacher. And then, bit by bit, your dream of 'Japan' will be shattered, leaving only the husk of racism and badly built uninsulated plastic houses.
One thing that surprised me when I got here, was how focused they were on the whole S&M thing, always trying to guess who is which...
I'm M... Obviously, else I wouldn't have survived the life here.
Your options are either to enter a japanese university to learn japanese, or as an english teacher. And then, bit by bit, your dream of 'Japan' will be shattered, leaving only the husk of racism and badly built uninsulated plastic houses.
One thing that surprised me when I got here, was how focused they were on the whole S&M thing, always trying to guess who is which...
I'm M... Obviously, else I wouldn't have survived the life here.
I've been to 2 mix-bath ryokans by myself during Early June this year.
I thought their hospitality was fantastic even toward foreigner like myself.
I kind of doubt the facts the inns are rejecting foreigners, it's just the foreigners are not willing to or having difficulties looking for a ryokan inn. I remember I have to tap through couple arrangements just to acquire the reservations and transportation method. (The inn owner was stocked to see a lone foreigner traveled 100 miles out of Tokyo to the middle of a forest, and survived!)
Trust me! other then the $150 per-night thing and the 5 hours train-bus-minibus ride, the whole thing is well worth it. You've get to eat traditional Japanese meal for the whole day, listens to some traditional Japanese music, seeing awesome forest scenery, bathing in Japanese hotspring with old(er) men and women. (fuk that!)
Oh, I've forgot to mention there are hardly any young people travels to those inns...
I thought their hospitality was fantastic even toward foreigner like myself.
I kind of doubt the facts the inns are rejecting foreigners, it's just the foreigners are not willing to or having difficulties looking for a ryokan inn. I remember I have to tap through couple arrangements just to acquire the reservations and transportation method. (The inn owner was stocked to see a lone foreigner traveled 100 miles out of Tokyo to the middle of a forest, and survived!)
Trust me! other then the $150 per-night thing and the 5 hours train-bus-minibus ride, the whole thing is well worth it. You've get to eat traditional Japanese meal for the whole day, listens to some traditional Japanese music, seeing awesome forest scenery, bathing in Japanese hotspring with old(er) men and women. (fuk that!)
Oh, I've forgot to mention there are hardly any young people travels to those inns...
Hostels, manga cafes, or just crash with people they know. What else do young people do?
Hmmm!
Well, after living in Japan for around 18 years I found that being a foreigner was generally a plus while in Japan (especially if you speak some Japanese).
You can get away with a lot more and also get special treatment and kindness not usually given to the locals.
But, I tried to start a hot spring (onsen) web site guide for English speakers and contacted hundreds of 'onsen' and hotels but over 90% were not interested at all!
There is a lot of etiquette to handle in an 'onsen' or traditional inn but it could all be smoothed over with a little booklet, in several languages, explaining the do's and dont's.
I guess the biggest mistake a novice foreigner would make in a hot spring would be to just jump straight in the bath ..... but it is imperative to first shower and wash your whole body thoroughly before you get in.
Also .............. hot springs tend to not let anyone in who has tattoos, Japanese or gaijin.
社キッド
Well, after living in Japan for around 18 years I found that being a foreigner was generally a plus while in Japan (especially if you speak some Japanese).
You can get away with a lot more and also get special treatment and kindness not usually given to the locals.
But, I tried to start a hot spring (onsen) web site guide for English speakers and contacted hundreds of 'onsen' and hotels but over 90% were not interested at all!
There is a lot of etiquette to handle in an 'onsen' or traditional inn but it could all be smoothed over with a little booklet, in several languages, explaining the do's and dont's.
I guess the biggest mistake a novice foreigner would make in a hot spring would be to just jump straight in the bath ..... but it is imperative to first shower and wash your whole body thoroughly before you get in.
Also .............. hot springs tend to not let anyone in who has tattoos, Japanese or gaijin.
社キッド