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WW2 feeling when thinking about Japan

Discussion in 'Japan Discussion' started by Muz1234, Mar 11, 2016.

  1. Muz1234

    Muz1234 Active Member

    Hello guys, what do you guys think of Japan's horrific past, even though you do like their cultures, language, etc, while you think about the Japan's horrific past during World War 2?

    Even though it happened long time ago, you kinda kept thinking about the same thing everyday.

    Thanks, for reading my post.
     
  2. Ceewan

    Ceewan Famished


    Personally I think more about what is going on now. War is ugly and ugly things happen. The Japan of today is not the same Japan of yesterday just as the China of today is not the same as it once was. WWII changed the world in many ways though and it will be remembered for a long time to come I would think.

    Japan and Germany are both close allies to my country and Japan is reaching out and improving relations in both the Phillipines and even with Russia while it courts other allies in Southeast Asia including India. Australia has made an official statement saying that it has moved on from WWII as it considers Japan in a major military contract. Speaking of which the Philipines just made a purchase from Japan of military equipment and have entered an agreement to purchase more as they upgrade their military as well. The Japanese have some excellent and advanced weaponry that is cheaper and can be delivered quicker than purchasing from the USA.

    So no, I don't really think about Japans' past atrocities all that much at all. It is not like my country (or any other) doesn't have their share of those in their past. Maybe it is time you move on from it as well.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2016
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  3. WillEater

    WillEater Well-Known Member

    I think most of the "Bad Guys" (both sides) in WWII are dust, as in dirt nap..
    Actually, Russians, Japanese, Germans, Italians and us Americans shot the hell out of a lot of territory.
    Many other island locals joined in too.
    Join the military, travel to exotic locations, meet interesting people, kill them.
    More to come, it seems.. "Boom" as they say in the middle East.
     
  4. Gir633

    Gir633 Señor Member

    What I always wonder is "what if the war never happened". The war was a tragedy with all the lost of life and destruction, but what would things be like now if the war didn't happen? The Japan we know and love today would not be here, but would it have turned out to be a worse place, or an even better one?
     
  5. WillEater

    WillEater Well-Known Member

    The basis for aggression revolves around culture differences, religion, and thirst for land/resources.
    Now that we have that settled, where are my "Comfort Women"? I need to relax.. :)
     
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  6. Ceewan

    Ceewan Famished


    "The basis for agression", what a lovely term but an argumentitive defintion. Agression is related to anger, which has its' roots in fear. Lust, greed, pride, envy and gluttony......the value of "self", (over ones fellow man), also contribute.

    In Archaeology, the earliest forms of war are believed to centered around women, not hunting grounds. The currency of war, the first currency of mankind, is considered to be slavery. So "comfort women" go back to the days where stick and stones were mans weapons of choice.

    Clausewitz claimed that "War is simply the continuation of political intercourse with the addition of other means"; which, although often refuted, is one of the most common held beliefs of modern warfare (as in "modern agression").
     
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  7. WillEater

    WillEater Well-Known Member

    He also had other thoughts.

    Key ideas discussed in On War include:

    • the dialectical approach to military analysis
    • the methods of "critical analysis"
    • the economic profit-seeking logic of commercial enterprise is equally applicable to the waging of war and negotiating for peace
    • the nature of the balance-of-power mechanism
    • the relationship between political objectives and military objectives in war
    • the asymmetrical relationship between attack and defense
    • the nature of "military genius" (involving matters of personality and character, beyond intellect)
    • the "fascinating trinity" (wunderliche Dreifaltigkeit) of war[16]
    • philosophical distinctions between "absolute war," "ideal war," and "real war"
    • in "real war," the distinctive poles of a) war of limited objectives and b) war to "render the enemy helpless"
    • "war" belonging fundamentally to the social realm—rather than to the realms of art or science
    • "strategy" belongs primarily to the realm of art, but is constrained by quantitative analyses of political benefits versus military costs & losses
    • "tactics" belongs primarily to the realm of science (most obvious in the development of siege warfare)
    • the importance of "moral forces" (more than simply "morale") as opposed to quantifiable physical elements
    • the "military virtues" of professional armies (which do not necessarily trump the rather different virtues of other kinds of fighting forces)
    • conversely, the very real effects of a superiority in numbers and "mass"
    • the essential unpredictability of war
    • the "fog" of war[17]
    • "friction" - the disparity between the ideal performance of units, organisation or systems and their actual performance in real world scenarios (Book I, Chapter VII)
    • strategic and operational "centers of gravity"[18]
    • the "culminating point of the offensive"
    • the "culminating point of victory"
     
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  8. Ceewan

    Ceewan Famished

    Nice.

    “Strategical analysis can never give exact results. It aims only at approxima-
    tions, at groupings which will serve to guide but will always leave much to the
    judgment”
    (Another Clausewitz quote)

    I think, personally, that it is important to remember that while war is commonly waged by nations, it is fought by people. Thus we have the modern usage of the terms "insurgents" and "terrorists", for example. Morality and war do not go hand-in-hand. Agression appeals to the darker side of human nature, even in a defensive stance. To kill in self-defense is still to murder another human being. Justification does not equate to righteousness, that is mere propaganda. Clausewitz, like Sun Tsu before him and Liddel Hart after him, were military theorists and military veterans. Their views were clouded by war, were necessity required focus on life and death decisions. This does not mean that war was a positive influence on their lives, only that they were able to pass on what they had learned (true scholars those three were too). War scars us, as a people and as individuals. Agression does that, it derives itself from negative influences.
     
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  9. tylersailer

    tylersailer Member

    I love the fact that sometimes we can talk about whose tits are better or if we like hairy pussy, or the implication of Clausewitz' study and the moral of war at the same time. Very very sophisticated people you all are.

    As for what I think about Japan and its history, I like to draw a comparison with rape victims. When you hear that someone is a victim of rape, do you think of her/him as a victim all the time? Is being the victim of rape only the element that characterizes her/himself? No. She/he is a human being before she/he is a victim. She/he is a person with multiple dimensions. It is narrow view to think of her/him as a single entity because of a terrible incident that has happened to her/him.

    The same thing goes to Japan. Japan is a nation before it was the aggressor of war (which notion should be carefully examined as there were multiple causes that triggered WWII.) USA is a country before it is a world police, or 'Murica.

    We clearly do not say Fuck Nazis whenever we see Volkswagen, yes?
     
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  10. Ceewan

    Ceewan Famished


    Nicely said as well. Love intelligent discourse, it can be a rare commodity here.


    I think that, firstly, you are talking about a form a prejudice, that is, preconceptions that people form based on the information "at hand" (whether factual or fictional in basis). These are normal blindspots that all people suffer from but we can only make judgements based on our present knowledge, and we will, regardless of the wisdom of it. It is part of the human defect. The challenge is to always seek to overcome our inherent defects by expanding our knowledge and points of view.

    As far as Japan not being the aggresor in WWII? I am pretty sure they drew first blood when the Japanese army invaded Manchuria in 1931 and with the invasion of China in 1937. There were other factors at work, politically and economically but these do not change those facts. Nor, do I feel, that it was the conquests themselves that painted Japan in such a bad light and left such a bitter aftertaste. Japan was a "bit" on the brutal side as conquerors. Given the size of Japan and the aspirations they had some of this can be understood as a necessity but a lot of acts were closer to the defintion of gratuitous. But like I have said, war is an ugly thing and the past is just that, the past.

    A thing or two about America being the "World Police". An argument can be made that is an after affect of their role in WWII. There are a lot of people in America, myself included, that believe it is time to withdraw much of our armed forces abroad and close many of our bases around the world. When a somewhat controversial politician made a similar argument to reducing Americas' role "abroad" he drew criticism from not just fellow polticians but from European news agencies who claimed that he wished to "abandon his allies". The World cannot have it both ways, you cannot ask a country to stay and criticise it for doing so in the same breath (but they do anyway).

    An interesting fact, Germany is a very large trading partner now with Israel. Yet some people, in my country and heard by my ears, still harbor bad feelings towards German companies such as Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Volkswagon for their role in WWII.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2016
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  11. WillEater

    WillEater Well-Known Member

    My uncle did to his dying day.. Those days are mostly gone, with much relief..
     
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  12. 01AKUser10

    01AKUser10 mors ab Faith

    It should be noted they also invaded Korea, Philippines, and the Aleutian Islands(part of Alaska) tho withdrew promptly after being repulsed by joint US and native American defense.[/QUOTE]


    partially related side note: USS Liberty incident
     
  13. Ceewan

    Ceewan Famished


    Not quite sure how that is related. It was an old and regrettable incident but at the time and considering the technology available, it was a somewhat understandable one. Israel was defending itself from all sides and the USS Liberty should have had a destroyer escort to clearly mark itself as under US protection and not an Egyptian ship flying false colors. Israel has made reparations for the incident. It should be taken into account that even though we were neutral during that time and in international waters Israel was at war and fighting for its' survival as a nation. Mistakes happen in war. We call these mistakes collateral damage. The fact is war surrounds itself with death and destruction, that is part of its' function. Always has it been and always shall it be.

    Despite feelings to the contrary, no sane Israeli general would have sought to start a war with the USA (especially at that time) and we are now one of Israels' closest friends and allies. Personally though, I think we should stop interfering in their affairs as it sends not only mixed messages but it often seems more like political maneuvering and it just isn't our place to interfere in foreign politics (it would be nice if my government felt that way too but that is out of my hands).

    Japan, as a side note, invaded the Phillipines and what is now known as Malaysia and Indonesia mostly for resources to continue Japans war of conquest. Their angst against the US, which enacted an oil embargo against them is probably their main reason for declaring war against us because we stood between Japan and the resources they needed. I do not find that an excuse for Pearl Harbor....whatsoever.....but I do acknowledge their reasoning at that time. The ramifications of the oil embargo could have been a little better thought out by those who made it. The US should have been better prepared for such a response, we were complacent.
     
  14. 01AKUser10

    01AKUser10 mors ab Faith

    They knew who it was, it was meant to sink with all crew KIA to blame on egypt and bring the US into their conflict. Thats why the communications antennae was targeted first. Later the crew were shot in their life rafts.

    Evidence pointing to the foreknowledge of the attack has grown over the years:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-memo-shows-US-warned-of-Japanese-attack.html
    If true, the ploy worked, bringing US into the war on the AXIS, ultimately resulting in their defeat.

    Patton silenced to hide truth - The Bolshevik connection:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...sm-of-allied-war-leaders-claims-new-book.html

    The two events seem to have an underlying connection, leading back to the year 1913.

    Not trying to poo-poo on your posts, just trying to point out that "All warfare is based on deception." - Sun Tzu
    Whatever the reasons were, one thing I think we can all agree is that the people of all the countries involved harbored no ill will, and were victims of circumstance. We should all strive to elevate humanity above the folly of war, and work together to find a feasible way off this rock before the next major extinction event.
     
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  15. Ceewan

    Ceewan Famished


    Contrary to popular belief I don't mind a little disagreement, some people can't disagree without belittling others though and that leads to a tit-for-tat battle I have just grown weary of. So I don't mind if we have a different point of views on some things...that just keeps life interesting.

    I am a big fan of Israel so I prefer to think the best of them. So if I admit if I see things in a different light on that subject understand that it will always be colored with that perspective. There are other explantions for the incident that I believe fit nicely but I won't deny that yours is conceivable.

    Big fan of Patton too. I think he was Americas' greatest general with a real flare and passion for war and a patriot who fought for his country. But I believe his death was an accident. Others disagree. If you haven't seen it you might enjoy the old movie Brass Target starring Sophia Loren, John Cassavetes, Max von Sydow , Gearge Kennedy, Robert Vaughn and Patrick McGoohan (which is one hell of a cast). "The film revolves around the actual historical event of Gen. George S. Patton's fatal automobile crash. It suggests it was not an accident but a conspiracy" (description from the Wiki).

    Loved your last paragraph that I quoted and couldn't agree more with it. Mankind should be working together and reaching for the stars! not killing each other over scraps of paper and other pitiful excuses for the loathesome things man seems intent on inflicting on each other.
     
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  16. 01AKUser10

    01AKUser10 mors ab Faith

    After reading alot of your posts, I knew you had thick enough skin to endure a little friendly disagreement. I will have to watch that movie, although most anything coming out of hollywood is suspect. It would seem mankind is still in its adolescence, and our technology has developed beyond our wisdom to wield it responsibly. Your right about the scraps of paper - worthless inanimate tools of our enslavement. Sadly, I fear the greed of a few may bring about the downfall of our entire species, if not the planet. But I digress.
    I think it would be interesting to hear opinions from people of all the countries involved in WWII, Japan, Germany, UK etc etc.. I know there must be members from those countries here at A-O. Or maybe this is just too obscure of a thread to expect much from a porn site. ha ha, just kidding! A-O has alot to offer besides 2D fantasy.. right?
     
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  17. holdonthere

    holdonthere Active Member

    I would like to suggest to those with any interest, to seek out the films of Kihachi Okamoto, Masaki Kobayashi, Hideo Gosha, these are men who experienced the war first hand. So their view of Japans history is not colored by blind patriotism.
     
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  18. Ceewan

    Ceewan Famished

    That is like saying that a book on the American Revolutionary War written by someone from Britain is more accurate than one written from America. All it actually does is provide a different perspective.




    裏には裏がある
    the reverse side has its reverse side
     
  19. Akiyaki

    Akiyaki New Member

    For something more recent, Koji Wakamatsu's "Caterpillar" is something worth watching.
     
  20. Supmop

    Supmop Akiba Citizen

    well more easy to say move on, if you don't have family member who became victims in WW2

    the tension between china and japan is still very high, people who said its wrong ... they are blind :p do they know japan always react every time looking at the chinese military parade ? Coz deep inside they know chinese still want to get revenge for what happened in WW2