Japan's Adult Anime Industry in danger
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:distressed:
You can spread your product to the ends of the Earth and beyond and if you do so for free then you're not a business but a charity. By definition, the company who has sold one copy of their title has done better than the company whose warehouse was raided, whose 300,000 copies were stolen and distributed on the black market, and who never sold one single copy.
Anyone who is here at Akiba is a pirate to some degree, period; so it's not as though I'm defending the corporate model 100%, but it really boggles the mind that people such as yourself will continue to argue for unadulterated piracy like this. I know, I know, you just said last night "extremes are bad", and you even mentioned how when you really like the title you do buy it and that you only purely pirate the stuff you wouldn't have wanted to buy anyway (I tend to think I operate exactly the same way, so we're brothers in thought in that sense), but the post I'm reading right now doesn't suggest you really believe that at all. If you did, there's no way you could allow yourself to say "in the end, distribution is more important than sales for a company's success." As important as distribution is, there comes a point where profits are so low that no amount of distribution will save the enterprise -- whereas on the other hand you can have distribution of 1 consumer (i.e. a patron) and still stay in business if the payments are ample.
"in the end, distribution is more important than sales for a company's success."
Distribution IS success.
If you use it right.
Let's say I had a great product for sale.
How many would buy it?
No one would, until I advertise it.
Now, lets say I had the same product given away for free, and have additional support, fuctions and/or online capability for a low fee.
And let's assume I had made the product immensely popular in modern countries.
Everyone at least knows of it.
I'd say the latter case is the bigger success.
Piracy relates to this as free, world-wide advertisement.
The better the product, the more popular it is, and more people will be drawn to it.
Anime is a great example.
We only just recently got anime and manga here in sweden.
We wouldn't have it at all if it weren't for the existing popularity and demand for it.
What I'm saying is that piracy is a ginormous lump of coal in the business world of today, and the businesses are trying to get rid of it for the sake of immediate profit.
But what they don't realize is that the coal is just a shell and under it lies a diamond, ready for some intelligent businessman to use.
'course, this lump of coal is socially being made into an evil monster, so it's not easy to do.
But I guarantee it'll be worth it in the long run.
Distribution IS success.
If you use it right.
Let's say I had a great product for sale.
How many would buy it?
No one would, until I advertise it.
Now, lets say I had the same product given away for free, and have additional support, fuctions and/or online capability for a low fee.
And let's assume I had made the product immensely popular in modern countries.
Everyone at least knows of it.
I'd say the latter case is the bigger success.
Piracy relates to this as free, world-wide advertisement.
The better the product, the more popular it is, and more people will be drawn to it.
Anime is a great example.
We only just recently got anime and manga here in sweden.
We wouldn't have it at all if it weren't for the existing popularity and demand for it.
What I'm saying is that piracy is a ginormous lump of coal in the business world of today, and the businesses are trying to get rid of it for the sake of immediate profit.
But what they don't realize is that the coal is just a shell and under it lies a diamond, ready for some intelligent businessman to use.
'course, this lump of coal is socially being made into an evil monster, so it's not easy to do.
But I guarantee it'll be worth it in the long run.
I think we're having communication difficulties, because what you just said (as a model) clearly places sales over distribution in penultimate importance, even if it stresses that distribution is a significant player -- and I not only have no problem with that, I 100% agree. The problem is, you're trying to use this model as an example of proof for why "distribution is more important than sales." And again, I have to say no, no it is not. By your own model!, all those free samples you speak of in paragraph 2 are setting the stage for future sales. But if there are no future sales -- if the free giveaways continue ad infinitum, i.e. pure, unadulterated piracy prevails, then the whole enterprise will have been for nothing! The distribution will have been a waste both of time and money, because no future profits will be reaped from it. Again, free samples are only smart business when they are followed by actual sales. A model of entirely free samples falls apart.
Which *proves* that sales matter more than distribution. Because (one more time) a distribution of one human being with $1,000,000 annual profits can work (e.g. you market yourself as a tutor for the Sultan of Brunei's sons), whereas a distribution of 1 billion people -- one-seventh the Earth's population! -- will fall apart if at the end of the year all you see from it is a bill in the amount of $1,000,000,000 for a $1 good but the profits you see are only $50,000 because a fragment of the population actually ponied up the cash to pay for it.
EDIT: So to bring this back to hentai ... say I'm a huge fan of Hellabunna. And say I try to convince Iruma Kamiri, "Look, you ought to give away free samples of your Inu series to get people acquainted with the proper channels for making future purchases of your works. Put the Inu free samples up on online stores that can be accessed internationally and charge people only for the cost of shipping and handling. Then, later, when those same people visit the site looking for your newer work, they'll already be familiar with how to order it and they'll be more inclined to purchase your works instead of torrenting them." He might be convinced by that. That would be the model you speak of, a model I agree with to a large extent.
But the thing is, you turn away from your model in some of your sentences and seem to suggest that it would be okay (even downright awesome) if Kamiri-san continued to release all of his works for free that way, as "free samples" to raise consumer awareness. That just doesn't work. If he's at all concerned about making a financial profit from his works, he can't continue to give away Inu, Rei, and all the other stand-alone works for free. He has to draw the line somewhere and say, "This, I won't release for free. This, you have to pay for." And the problem is:
1- there are people in Japan who say "F U" to that, scan his material, and distribute it through Share / Winny / etc.
2- people like us also say, "Umm, no thanks" and download it for free rather than paying for it
If Kamiri-san writes doujinshi for the love of it, he won't let this get him down; but if he's become financially dependent on it, he may say "Hell with this" and quit releasing altogether.
Which *proves* that sales matter more than distribution. Because (one more time) a distribution of one human being with $1,000,000 annual profits can work (e.g. you market yourself as a tutor for the Sultan of Brunei's sons), whereas a distribution of 1 billion people -- one-seventh the Earth's population! -- will fall apart if at the end of the year all you see from it is a bill in the amount of $1,000,000,000 for a $1 good but the profits you see are only $50,000 because a fragment of the population actually ponied up the cash to pay for it.
EDIT: So to bring this back to hentai ... say I'm a huge fan of Hellabunna. And say I try to convince Iruma Kamiri, "Look, you ought to give away free samples of your Inu series to get people acquainted with the proper channels for making future purchases of your works. Put the Inu free samples up on online stores that can be accessed internationally and charge people only for the cost of shipping and handling. Then, later, when those same people visit the site looking for your newer work, they'll already be familiar with how to order it and they'll be more inclined to purchase your works instead of torrenting them." He might be convinced by that. That would be the model you speak of, a model I agree with to a large extent.
But the thing is, you turn away from your model in some of your sentences and seem to suggest that it would be okay (even downright awesome) if Kamiri-san continued to release all of his works for free that way, as "free samples" to raise consumer awareness. That just doesn't work. If he's at all concerned about making a financial profit from his works, he can't continue to give away Inu, Rei, and all the other stand-alone works for free. He has to draw the line somewhere and say, "This, I won't release for free. This, you have to pay for." And the problem is:
1- there are people in Japan who say "F U" to that, scan his material, and distribute it through Share / Winny / etc.
2- people like us also say, "Umm, no thanks" and download it for free rather than paying for it
If Kamiri-san writes doujinshi for the love of it, he won't let this get him down; but if he's become financially dependent on it, he may say "Hell with this" and quit releasing altogether.
Why must people take my half-assed analogies in their simplicity as everything there is to what I'm saying.
You're not seeing the broader spectrum. Most people don't; they don't even look at it.
My entire point is that hyperdistribution spreads products and businesses profit from it.
Instead of outlawing it and spending millions, billions even, fighting it, they could use it.
It is not that simple. I know it's not as simple as my analogy suggests, but it is the core principle, and it has been proven to work.
You don't need cold hard sells to make profit.
I'll take the online game market as an example; The massive amount of korean MMOs.
They're for the most part free to play. No charge. Just download and play.
So how could they possibly survive and live to even make more games?
Simply through the 'Cash' system. It allows players to purchase equipment, bonus features and such for a small fee.
However, it only actually works if the product is good enough to interest the crowd, which would force developers to actually make good products instead of good ads to survive.
A great read about this subject is: http://www.mindjack.com/feature/piracy051305.html
The old business model is outdated. It still works, but it would work better if it adapted.
Besides, the concept that businesses are trying to force us consumers to act in a specific way is irony by definition.
We, the consumers, are not a person. We are legion, as 4chan puts it.
They live off of us, we do not forgive, we do not obey.
To survive, you need to go with the wind.
You're not seeing the broader spectrum. Most people don't; they don't even look at it.
My entire point is that hyperdistribution spreads products and businesses profit from it.
Instead of outlawing it and spending millions, billions even, fighting it, they could use it.
It is not that simple. I know it's not as simple as my analogy suggests, but it is the core principle, and it has been proven to work.
You don't need cold hard sells to make profit.
I'll take the online game market as an example; The massive amount of korean MMOs.
They're for the most part free to play. No charge. Just download and play.
So how could they possibly survive and live to even make more games?
Simply through the 'Cash' system. It allows players to purchase equipment, bonus features and such for a small fee.
However, it only actually works if the product is good enough to interest the crowd, which would force developers to actually make good products instead of good ads to survive.
A great read about this subject is: http://www.mindjack.com/feature/piracy051305.html
The old business model is outdated. It still works, but it would work better if it adapted.
Besides, the concept that businesses are trying to force us consumers to act in a specific way is irony by definition.
We, the consumers, are not a person. We are legion, as 4chan puts it.
They live off of us, we do not forgive, we do not obey.
To survive, you need to go with the wind.
Whoops, I never replied because I decided to give myself a little time, but you totally deserve a reply of thanks for your cooperation. So yeah, thanks for discussing this with me, even though I think this last reply was the final clear signal of "we're going to have to agree to disagree." The issue I had with what you were saying wasn't at its core but at its superficial semantic level, so seeing you say what you've written in the quote box above gave me pause ... it made me realize that feelings were being hurt over nothing when really we have more in common ideologically than either of us probably would with a random joe pulled off the street.
Well, okay.
Don't misunderstand though, I'm not hurt or otherwise offended.
I just have no.. opinion block. As in I'm often very blunt in how I speak.
People tend to mistake that as being emotional or sometimes even offensive, though that's not my intention.
I wouldn't call myself unfriendly, but I will never act friendly.
That aside, I think I should make it clear I'm not one of those 'everything piracy related is only good' airheads.
I'm aware businesses have been suffering and some even been destroyed by it.
The thing is that I don't see why that is such a groundbreakingly bad thing.
Competition has broken more people than piracy ever have and probably ever will.
Yet we consider competition a good thing, even necessary.
Anyways, yeah, let's just end it at that.
Opinions differ and I'm always up for some healthy arguments.
Don't misunderstand though, I'm not hurt or otherwise offended.
I just have no.. opinion block. As in I'm often very blunt in how I speak.
People tend to mistake that as being emotional or sometimes even offensive, though that's not my intention.
I wouldn't call myself unfriendly, but I will never act friendly.
That aside, I think I should make it clear I'm not one of those 'everything piracy related is only good' airheads.
I'm aware businesses have been suffering and some even been destroyed by it.
The thing is that I don't see why that is such a groundbreakingly bad thing.
Competition has broken more people than piracy ever have and probably ever will.
Yet we consider competition a good thing, even necessary.
Anyways, yeah, let's just end it at that.
Opinions differ and I'm always up for some healthy arguments.
Man, no company which sells sex, can go bankrupt. I do not bielieve it, besides the animation industry has to much ramification in the world to be affect by illegal files. Just think of how much are made each year and how much can you find on the internet and if you do, how many month after ...
Don't worry dude, anime porn industry will be there forever, you can be sure of it ^^
Don't worry dude, anime porn industry will be there forever, you can be sure of it ^^
imma start doing that :]I think that this problem should be taken care of swiftly. Take everything off the net,it may be harsh..but at least the genre can survive.
The elimination of the problem is never the best solution. I don't even think that could be called a 'solution'. With such short-sighted views, you can only bring harm to the whole, trying to fix the small. It's like eliminating electric cars, because they make people buy less petrol cars. Or banning portable portable players, because they use media formats pirates can use.
In the world of business, you don't murder your competition, you adapt according to it, or you go down.
Just look at the record companies; they didn't, they implemented DRM, and they suffered badly for it.
Now, there's ways to buy music online, and the business is flourishing.
In the world of business, you don't murder your competition, you adapt according to it, or you go down.
Just look at the record companies; they didn't, they implemented DRM, and they suffered badly for it.
Now, there's ways to buy music online, and the business is flourishing.