Japan protests after unprecedented swarm of 230 Chinese vessels enter waters near Senkakus

Ceewan

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A China Coast Guard vessel is seen in waters near the Japanese-controlled Senkaku Islands on Saturday morning. | JAPAN COAST GUARD / VIA KYODO

Kyodo

Aug 6, 2016


Tokyo lodged a protest with China on Saturday after spotting 230 Chinese vessels swarming waters near the Japan-controlled Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea, an unusually large number, the Foreign Ministry said.

The roughly 230 fishing boats and six China Coast Guard vessels were confirmed in a contiguous zone near the uninhabited islets, which are also claimed by China.

The number of fishing vessels, which appeared to be escorted by the coast guard ships, was larger than has previously been spotted.

“This is a unilateral act that raises tensions … and it is unacceptable to us,” the Foreign Ministry’s Asian and Oceanian Affairs Bureau director-general, Kenji Kanasugi, told the Chinese Embassy in Japan, the ministry said.

Some of the coast guard vessels appeared to be equipped with guns, according to the Japan Coast Guard.

The development followed a similar incident Friday when a total of eight Chinese fishing and coast guard vessels briefly entered Japanese territorial waters around the Senkakus, prompting the ministry to summon the Chinese ambassador to lodge a protest.

Vice Foreign Minister Shinsuke Sugiyama told Chinese Ambassador to Japan Cheng Yonghua on Friday that the coast guard vessels’ entry into territorial waters around the islets and their activities there are a violation of Japan’s sovereignty and totally unacceptable, the ministry said.

The coast guard vessels entered Japanese waters soon after the Chinese fishing ships did at around 1:30 p.m. Friday, and were then confirmed to be sailing near the fishing vessels, the ministry said.

While previous protests against entry by Chinese coast guard vessels were lodged at the director-general level, the latest protest was at a higher level.

The remote islets administered by Japan are claimed by Taiwan as well.
 
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Ceewan

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Chinese Senkaku swarm tactic spells trouble for Japan

China’s use of an armada of fishing boats — part of its so-called maritime militia — near the disputed Senkaku Islands could spell trouble for Tokyo as Beijing ramps up its assertiveness in the East China Sea, experts say.

On Sunday morning, Tokyo lodged a protest with the Chinese Embassy after two China Coast Guard ships entered what Japan calls its territorial waters around the uninhabited islands that it administers. Seven other Chinese ships were meanwhile spotted in the so-called contiguous zone just outside, the Japan Coast Guard said.

A day earlier, Tokyo protested to Beijing after seven Chinese Coast Guard ships and about 230 fishing vessels, an unusually high number, sailed close to the territorial waters around the islets, which are also claimed by China and Taiwan.

Three of the coast guard ships were apparently armed, the Japanese Foreign Ministry said. Chinese coast guard vessels routinely sail near the islands, and some armed ships were recently spotted in the area.

China usually brushes off Japan’s complaints, saying the Japanese-controlled islands are an “inherent part” of Chinese territory.

Saturday’s actions, however, have likely stoked long-held concerns in Tokyo of a swarm of fishing boats descending on the area around the Senkakus, effectively overwhelming Japanese patrols.

“The latest developments … do seem to be a potentially significant escalation as we have not seen this type of Chinese action before of that scale,” said Christopher Hughes, a professor of international politics and Japanese studies at the University of Warwick in England. “Japanese policymakers have long worried that China might try to impose control on the Senkakus through using some type of large-scale civilian/paramilitary presence that it would be hard to counter with Japan Coast Guard resources or justify the use of force for.”
‘Flooding the zone’

While similar tactics by China have been noted before in Japanese waters, including near the Senkakus, Saturday’s mass of vessels was one of the first in many years.

In April 1978, just months before Tokyo and Beijing inked a peace and friendship treaty in October that year, hundreds of fishing vessels entered Japanese territorial waters near the Senkakus, stoking concern in Tokyo. Though China’s then-vice premier, Deng Xiaoping, said the incursions had been “incidental,” and that China “would never engage in such incidents,” Japanese officials feared such actions would return in the future.

More recently, between April and November 2014, hundreds of Chinese fishing boats believed to be coral poachers were spotted in the Pacific Ocean around the Ogasawara Islands about 1,000 km south of Tokyo, and another 100 or so were seen near the Izu Islands, closer to the mainland.

These boats, which openly flew the Chinese flag, were likely dispatched with Beijing’s tacit approval to gauge the Japan Coast Guard’s response, observers have said.

“In that case, Japan detained a few boats and fined the skippers,” said retired U.S. Marine Col. Grant Newsham, a senior research fellow at the Japan Forum for Strategic Studies in Tokyo. “However, the Japanese were basically helpless when faced with the fishing armada.”

Newsham said this served two purposes: to gauge the Japanese response and to inflict psychological damage.

“The Chinese demonstrate that anytime they want, they can ‘flood the zone’ and establish dominance — while daring the Japanese to do something,” he said.

This dominance is largely due to the overwhelming number of boats the Chinese side possesses.

While the Japan Coast Guard had 128 patrol vessels as of April 2015, it is estimated that its Chinese counterpart has more than 200 maritime enforcement vessels, including a pair of recently built 10,000-ton “monster” ships, the biggest coast guard vessels in the world.

Beijing can also count on its maritime militia, which consists ostensibly of potentially hundreds of thousands civilian craft and personnel, to harass rivals and safeguard its maritime interests.

Experts say that the use of the maritime militia is a part of China’s long-established “salami-slicing” strategy in both the East and South China seas. This strategy employs the slow accumulation of small actions, none of which is a casus belli, but which add up over time to a major strategic shift.

“The operations near the Senkaku Islands are similar to Chinese maritime militia operations previously conducted near the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, and Indonesia’s Natuna Islands,” said James Kraska, research director at the Stockton Center for the Study of International Law at the U.S. Naval War College. “In each case a large number of Chinese fishing vessels from China’s maritime militia operate in concert with a handful of Chinese Coast Guard command and control ships.

“The maritime militia is an effective tool because it shifts the onus onto Japan to respond to low-level coercion,” Kraska added.
South China Sea link

The moves also come as Beijing seeks to temper its response to a decision last month by an international arbitration tribunal that effectively rejected its claims to much of the South China Sea. Tokyo has pressed Beijing to abide by the ruling, stoking anger in China, which swiftly accused Japan of meddling in its affairs.

According to Jonathan Miller, an international affairs fellow with the Council on Foreign Relations, China’s behavior near the Senkakus is likely meant to press Tokyo, which has been vocal in its support of the tribunal’s decision, while also actively supporting maritime capacity building among rival claimants in Southeast Asia.

But more importantly, Miller said, the recent actions also target the United States.

“China is looking for leverage points in its complex relationship with the U.S. and feels that pushing back in the East China Sea can also send signals on its resolve in the South China Sea,” said Miller. “It also risks less blowback internationally, now that Chinese activities have been in the spotlight in the South China Sea.”

Tetsuo Kotani, a senior fellow at the Japan Institute of International Affairs in Tokyo, said the timing of the actions also reflects competition in the ruling Communist Party leadership in Beijing.

The administration of Chinese President Xi Jinping, Kotani said, needed to demonstrate that it is “enhancing effective control” of both the East and South China seas ahead of the annual Beidaihe meeting, or “summer summit,” where a faction led by former Presidents Jiang Zemin and Hu Jintao was likely to criticize the arbitration ruling and Japan’s diplomatic moves.

China has urged bilateral talks on the South China Sea issue with the claimants but has also bolstered its military presence in those waters and in the East China Sea.

“This is all part of China’s ongoing, long-term effort to dominate and physically control the South China Sea and East China seas,” said Newsham.

“One shouldn’t look at the Chinese actions in the East China Sea and South China Sea in isolation, but rather consider the entire map and what China intends to do.”

Newsham noted that while China’s claims to the South China Sea get the bulk of attention, a hawkish Chinese general and state media reports quoting Chinese scholars have even asserted that not the only the Senkakus, but also the entire Ryukyu chain — including Okinawa — are historically Chinese territory.

“China is patient and takes a long-term approach,” he said. “Applying pressure when it can and seeing what it gets away with. But it is the continuous pressure and probing that moves the ‘baseline’ farther for China’s advantage.”
Wearing Japan down

According to maritime security experts, China’s strategy appears to be one of attrition to grind down its rivals. In the case of the Senkaku Islands, this is likely to be by establishing a regular, permanent presence and gradually tiring out the Japanese.

“Fishing fleets, which are ultimately an extension of the Chinese government and its coercive power, are a perfect tool — as they give the appearance of being ‘nonmilitary’ and somehow less threatening,” Newsham said, adding that China has already had some success displacing Japanese fishermen there. “That trend will continue,” he said.

With this uptick in activity in the East China Sea, Tokyo may need to take an even more serious look at its defense spending, which topped ¥5 trillion for the first time in fiscal 2016.

“There may be some good intentions on the Japanese side, but if you won’t spend the money, you’re not serious,” said Newsham. “What we’re seeing in the East China Sea is ultimately Japan’s failure to spend adequately on defense for decades and to develop an SDF (the Self-Defense Forces) capable of defending Japanese territory — as opposed to preparing a static defense of Hokkaido if the Russians invaded.”

As for any role the United States could play in the dispute, experts say more joint exercises and patrols in the region could play a strong role in deterring China while also bolstering the bilateral military alliance.

“Never forget the political/psychological aspect of U.S.-Japanese forces operating together,” said Newsham. “The Chinese understand this bit perfectly well.”

Other options for making a statement include the U.S. restarting firing exercises at ranges in the Senkakus, which Washington has declined to use since the administration of President Jimmy Carter in the late 1970s.

But in dealing with China’s asymmetrical threat, Japan must tread carefully or risk seeing any minor conflagration turn into a full-fledged conflict.

“Keep in mind that China will claim that anything the Japanese do is an ‘escalation’ and a ‘provocation,’ ” said Newsham. “My sense is that Japan is somewhat hamstrung at the moment.


by Jesse Johnson

Staff Writer
 
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Ceewan

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Japan protests to China over radar on gas rig in E. China Sea


TOKYO (Kyodo) -- Japan has protested to China over a surface radar found to have been installed on one of the Chinese gas drilling platforms in the East China Sea area where the countries have overlapping economic claims, a Japanese government source said Sunday.

The radar is for detecting ships and is not powerful enough to be used for military purposes, though concerns remain about China's use of the structures as a military post in the future, the source said.

China has drilling platforms and foundations near the median line between the shorelines of the two countries.

Japan is concerned that China may be siphoning off resources from beneath the Japanese side, but Beijing does not recognize the line on the grounds that it was drawn unilaterally.

Of China's 16 structures in the area, the Japanese Defense Ministry confirmed installation of new equipment on the northernmost facilities in late June, according to the official. The ministry later concluded the equipment was a surface radar and surveillance camera.
 
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Ceewan

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Japan protests Chinese ships' intrusion

Japan's Foreign Ministry has lodged a protest with the Chinese ambassador to the country over the intrusion of Chinese ships into Japanese territorial waters.

Ministry officials say 9 Chinese ships were sailing on Sunday morning in the contiguous zone just outside Japan's territorial waters near the Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea. They also say that 2 of them, both from China's coast guard, entered Japan's waters around 10 AM.

Before noon, Japan's Vice Minister for Foreign Affairs, Shinsuke Sugiyama, strongly protested to the Chinese Ambassador to Japan, Cheng Yonghua, by phone, saying that the move violates Japan's sovereignty and is unacceptable.

On Friday, 2 Chinese patrol boats followed Chinese fishing boats and entered Japan's waters.

On Saturday, 7 Chinese patrol ships sailed in the contiguous zone with about 300 Chinese fishing boats surrounding them.

The Japanese government protested each time, and is studying China's intentions while stepping up its vigilance.

Japan controls the Senkaku Islands. The Japanese government maintains the islands are an inherent part of Japan's territory. China and Taiwan claim them.

China's State Oceanic Administration said on Sunday that 2 Chinese coast guard vessels navigated in China's territorial waters near its islands earlier in the day.

An NHK reporter in Beijing says the Chinese government wants to justify the intrusion and stress that China has territorial sovereignty over the islands.
 

Ceewan

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Japan protests Chinese vessels' intrusions

A senior Japanese Foreign Ministry official has again protested the intrusions of Chinese ships into Japanese territorial waters around the Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea.

Foreign Policy Bureau Director-General Kimihiro Ishikane delivered the protest to a minister counsellor at the Chinese Embassy in Tokyo at 8 PM and 9 PM on Sunday.

Ishikane called for Chinese vessels to immediately leave Japan's territorial waters and contiguous zone, which is just outside the territorial waters.

He said intrusions into Japan's territorial waters is a violation of the country's sovereignty and can never be tolerated.
Ishikane said it is totally unacceptable that the Chinese side has ignored Japan's strong protests and have repeatedly intruded into Japan's territorial waters in unilateral actions that further heighten the tension in the area.

Ishikane's protest came after Japan's Vice-Minister for Foreign Affairs, Shinsuke Sugiyama, lodged two similar protests with Chinese Ambassador to Japan, Cheng Yonghua, earlier on Sunday.

Japan's Foreign Ministry has filed protests over the intrusions with the Chinese government for the third day in a row.

Japan controls the Senkaku Islands. The Japanese government maintains the islands are an inherent part of Japan's territory. China and Taiwan claim them.
 

Ceewan

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Japan's Coast Guard steps up patrols near Senkaku


Japan's Coast Guard has stepped up its patrols in the country's territorial waters around a group of islands in the East China Sea after spotting more than 10 Chinese ships sailing nearby.

Japanese Coast Guard officials say 13 Chinese Coast Guard vessels sailed in the contiguous zone just outside Japan's territorial waters near the Senkaku Islands on Sunday.

The number was the largest since Japan's government nationalized the islands in September 2012.

Many Chinese fishing boats have been operating near the islands since the fishing season opened earlier this month.

A fishing agreement between the two countries allows fishing boats from both nations to operate in the area.

Last Friday, 2 Chinese Coast Guard vessels, along with Chinese fishing boats, intruded into Japanese territorial waters near the islands.

On Saturday, 7 Chinese vessels were spotted in the adjacent waters, an increase from 3 on the previous day.
Six more ships joined the flotilla on Sunday to bring the total number of vessels to 13.

Some of them have repeatedly trespassed into Japanese territorial waters around the islands.

Japan controls the Senkaku Islands. China and Taiwan claim them.
 

CoolKevin

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it is so annoying that all this is happening nowadays

are we ever going to learn from history
 
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Ceewan

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it is so annoying that all this is happening nowadays

are we ever going to learn from history


The timing is calculated...and maybe even predicted (see South China Sea thread). China is just bullying here, throwing their weight around at a time where the international community cannot ignore it. I am actually somewhat impressed by the diplomatic skills of China. They have a way of seeming to be on the right side of the argument, in their statements anyway, even when it is they that are pushing around others. That takes tact. What I worry about is an accidental escalation of events (not totally unconcerned about a purposeful one, no matter how unlikely). This is part of Chinas response to the ruling in Hague against their territoral claims in the South China Sea.

This is why Japan seeks to change its' constitution and why it is pressing for military upgrades and increased military spending (which is already pretty high). China can be scary.
 
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Ceewan

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Japan to respond to Chinese ship intrusions


Officials with Japan's government have said they will respond resolutely to the intrusion of Chinese ships into Japanese territorial waters.

Last week, a Chinese patrol ship and 6 fishing boats flying Chinese flags were spotted sailing in Japan's waters near the Senkaku Islands.

Then on Monday, a fleet of 15 Chinese ships were confirmed to be in territorial waters near the islands or in the contiguous zone just outside them.

Japan has repeatedly lodged protests with China.
But, there has been no indication that the situation will change.

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe has ordered relevant ministries to respond calmly but resolutely in accordance with international and domestic law.

He has also instructed them to provide the public and the international community with accurate information on the matter.

Government officials say that if the current situation continues, Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida will convey a message of protest to the Chinese side by phone.

Officials are also considering expressing concerns about the matter at international conferences, such as a G20 summit to be held in China in early September.
 

Ceewan

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Japan warns Chinese ships against law enforcement


Japan Coast Guard officers have warned Chinese ships not to undertake any law enforcement activities inside Japanese waters off the Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea.

The Coast Guard says 5 Chinese government ships unloaded small boats to allow crewmembers to board nearby fishing ships from China. The action took place inside Japan's exclusive economic zone or the contiguous zone just outside territorial waters off Kuba Island in the Senkakus from before noon through night on Tuesday.

Coast Guard officers say the crewmembers are likely to have inspected the fishing ships as part of their law enforcement duties.

They say Japan issued warnings to the Chinese crews by loudspeakers and radio contacts that exercising fishery jurisdiction in Japanese waters is unacceptable.

The Chinese vessels made no response. Their small boats later returned to the mother ships.

Meanwhile, Japan's government has published information about the increasing activities of Chinese government ships near the Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea.

The data posted on Tuesday on the Foreign Ministry and Japan Coast Guard websites includes photos of patrol vessels that were spotted near the islands between Friday and Monday. The government says Chinese ships navigated in the contiguous zone just outside Japan's territorial waters. On one occasion, a record 15 vessels sailed together.

The government also says as many as 11 ships entered Japanese waters in one day and the number operating near the Senkaku Islands has risen sharply.

The release came after Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida told Chinese Ambassador to Tokyo Cheng Yonghua on Tuesday that actions which unilaterally escalate tensions are unacceptable.

Japanese officials have lodged protests against China for 5 days in a row. A total of 23 protests were made during this period.

The government plans to release an English version of the data on China's activities.

Japan controls the Senkaku Islands. The Japanese government maintains the islands are an inherent part of Japan's territory. China and Taiwan claim them.
 
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Ceewan

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Chinese fishing boat collides with Greek freighter near Senkakus, 6 rescued

8.jpg

Crewmembers of a JCG patrol boat rescue a man wearing a life jacket from the sea close to the Senkaku Islands in Okinawa Prefecture, on Aug. 11, 2016. (Photo courtesy of the 11th Regional Coast Guard Headquarters)

NAHA -- A Chinese fishing boat apparently sank after colliding with a Greek-registered freighter on high seas close to the Senkaku Islands in Okinawa Prefecture early on Aug. 11, the Japan Coast Guard (JCG) said.

A JCG patrol boat rescued six people believed to be crewmembers of the Chinese boat. Another patrol vessel and a JCG aircraft are searching the area for other survivors.

At around 5:30 a.m., crewmembers of a JCG patrol boat received an SOS from the 106,726-ton freighter Anangel Courage. The patrol vessel and a JCG plane found the freighter on the high seas about 67 kilometers away from Uotsuri Island, one of the Senkaku Islands, which are also claimed by China.

JCG officers questioned Anangel Courage crewmembers and confirmed that the freighter had collided with a Chinese fishing boat. The JCG fears that the Chinese boat sank because the vessel has not been spotted in the area, plus the six people pulled from the sea.

Six Chinese government vessels have been dispatched to the scene. The JCG is cooperating with Chinese authorities in searching for survivors.
 

Ceewan

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U.S. opposes Chinese vessels' entry into waters near Senkakus



WASHINGTON -- The United States opposes any unilateral action that tries to undermine Japan's administration of the Senkaku Islands and is worried about the rise of Chinese patrol boats in the vicinity of the islands, U.S. State Department spokeswoman Elizabeth Trudeau said Aug. 10.

Trudeau's remarks at a daily press briefing went further than her comment on the isles a day earlier, emphasizing that the U.S. is expressing its opposition to ''any unilateral action that seeks to undermine Japan's administration of the Senkaku Islands'' in Okinawa Prefecture.

''We continue to closely monitor the situation around the Senkaku Islands,'' the spokeswoman said. ''We are in close communication with the Japanese as allies and are also concerned about the increase of Chinese coast guard vessels in the vicinity of the islands.''

Trudeau added, ''The Senkaku Islands have been under Japanese administration since the reversion of Okinawa in 1972, as such they fall within the scope of article 5 of the 1960 U.S.-Japan Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security.''

When asked about reports that Vietnam has sent several rocket launchers to several of its Spratly Island bases, the spokeswoman said Washington continues to urge all South China Sea claimants to avoid actions that raise tensions, take practical steps to build confidence and intensify efforts to find peaceful, diplomatic solutions to disputes.

In addition to Vietnam, other claimants of the islands and reefs in the South China Sea are China, Taiwan, the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei.
 

Ceewan

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China suspends official’s visit to Japan over Senkaku protests



China will suspend the visit of its assistant foreign minister to Japan this month because of Tokyo’s repeated protests against Chinese government vessels off the Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea, sources said.

Kong Xuanyou was scheduled to visit in mid-August to help pave the way for Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi’s participation in a trilateral foreign ministers meeting expected late this month in Japan, the Japanese government sources said Aug. 10.

The suspension of Kong’s visit will make it difficult to hold the foreign ministers meeting, which also involves South Korea, the sources said.

The Japanese and Chinese governments planned to use the trilateral foreign ministers meeting to help set up a meeting between Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and Chinese President Xi Jinping on the sidelines of the G-20 summit scheduled for September in Hangzhou, China.

“The scenario of heightening the mood for dialogue in the foreign ministers meeting and leading it to the meeting (between Abe and Xi) at the G-20 is collapsing,” a Japanese government source said.

Japan is now considering asking Kong to visit after Aug. 15, which marks the 71st anniversary of the end of World War II.

The Senkaku Islands are administered by Japan but also claimed by China.

Beijing insists that Chinese government vessels enforcing laws in sea areas around the uninhabited isles are acting within its sovereignty.

If China withdraws those vessels in response to protests from Japan, it will surely face criticism from the Chinese public.
 
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Ceewan

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Chinese fighter jet approaches to within 50 km of disputed Senkakus




August 14, 2016

TOKYO (Kyodo) -- Chinese military fighter jets have approached the disputed Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea since late May and one of them flew in an area within 50 kilometers of Japan's territorial airspace around the islets, a Japanese government source said Saturday.

Tokyo scrambled Air Self-Defense Force fighter jets against the Chinese aircraft, the source said, adding it is "abnormal" for Chinese aircraft to approach to such a close distance from Japan's territorial airspace.

Chinese military airplanes have neared the islets more than three times since late May, the source said.

During the April to June period, Japan scrambled ASDF fighter jets against Chinese aircraft approaching its airspace a record 199 times, breaking the previous record of 198 set over the preceding three months, the Japanese Defense Ministry said.

Japan's defense white paper released by the ministry earlier this month criticized China's activities in the sea as "high-handed" unilateral action attempting to alter the status quo by force.

Kunio Orita, a former head of the ASDF Air Support Command, published a report online in late June, saying an ASDF plane, which had been scrambled, left the area while employing a countermeasure to avoid a possible missile attack. The Defense Ministry has denied the report.

As for Beijing's maritime activities, Tokyo has voiced concern over Chinese naval vessels' recent sailing in and around Japanese territorial waters in the East China Sea, including in a contiguous zone surrounding the Senkakus. Beijing claims the uninhabited islets and calls them Diaoyu.

The United States has also expressed opposition to any attempt to undermine Japan's administration of the islands, in reference to continued intrusions by Chinese government ships into Japanese waters around the islets despite repeated protests by Tokyo.
 
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kharo88

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Thanks for the updates! I'd like to point out that many of those articles repeat things that have been said before, which is a bit annoying!
 
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Ceewan

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Thanks for the updates! I'd like to point out that many of those articles repeat things that have been said before, which is a bit annoying!


Yeah. The choice is to edit the articles from the sources I got them from or let them be as it is. Since not everyone probably reads the whole thread and most likely just read the newest posts in that thread I tend to allow the annoyance just to make each post as informative as possible. The problem has been on my mind though, as the repetition of previously stated facts or observations annoys me too. I will consider changing my position on this but if the news agencies feel its' important to continually repeat what they believe to be relevant facts I don't know that I would making the correct choice. They are the professionals afterall. I am just reposting (is retweeting the correct term now?) from their articles. Overall I just post what I find most interesting that I have read.

The whole situation seems to be the strangest and most dangerous game I have seen since the cold war era with the USSR. If I am reading the situation right, and I am not positive I am, there seem to be conflicting elements in the Chinese government on the proper course of action here. They seem to be trying to force acceptance of their territorial claims through threat of military actions while striving for continued diplomatic improvements with the same countries they are threatening and seeking diplomatic solutions to the problem that are overwhelmingly in their favor. Why China is walking the Razors' Edge on this is beyond me. Certainly they could get the Lions' Share of the territory they desire if they would show a desire to compromise. They have made their point already that they have the local superiorty to take most of what they want already.....maybe even to hold on to it. I am not sure if it is a matter of greed or pride or need or all three. Point is that this has been going on for decades but it has only truly heated up recently and there has to be a reason for that.

I am not positive that Japan isn't somewhat fault in this particular instance either. I get the feeling that they believe they lost so much territory after WWII that preventing the loss of anymore is worth risking everything they still have.

Taiwan has been strangely quiet on this but I get the feeling that they are rooting for Japan here even when they have claims on the same islands. the Senkakus are between Okinawa and Taiwan so if China controlled those as well it would further isolate them from everyone else. China wants Taiwan back badly and even though Taiwan has not officially claimed independence (which China has stated they will not accept) they have been acting as an idependent nation and are treated as an independent nation in most respects by the world in general. I wouldn't be surprised if the whole claim on the Senkakus by China is because they are further trying to pressure Taiwan into submitting to Chinese rule and it has little or nothing to do with Japan at all.
 

kharo88

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Yeah. The choice is to edit the articles from the sources I got them from or let them be as it is. Since not everyone probably reads the whole thread and most likely just read the newest posts in that thread I tend to allow the annoyance just to make each post as informative as possible. The problem has been on my mind though, as the repetition of previously stated facts or observations annoys me too. I will consider changing my position on this but if the news agencies feel its' important to continually repeat what they believe to be relevant facts I don't know that I would making the correct choice. They are the professionals afterall. I am just reposting (is retweeting the correct term now?) from their articles. Overall I just post what I find most interesting that I have read.

The whole situation seems to be the strangest and most dangerous game I have seen since the cold war era with the USSR. If I am reading the situation right, and I am not positive I am, there seem to be conflicting elements in the Chinese government on the proper course of action here. They seem to be trying to force acceptance of their territorial claims through threat of military actions while striving for continued diplomatic improvements with the same countries they are threatening and seeking diplomatic solutions to the problem that are overwhelmingly in their favor. Why China is walking the Razors' Edge on this is beyond me. Certainly they could get the Lions' Share of the territory they desire if they would show a desire to compromise. They have made their point already that they have the local superiorty to take most of what they want already.....maybe even to hold on to it. I am not sure if it is a matter of greed or pride or need or all three. Point is that this has been going on for decades but it has only truly heated up recently and there has to be a reason for that.

I am not positive that Japan isn't somewhat fault in this particular instance either. I get the feeling that they believe they lost so much territory after WWII that preventing the loss of anymore is worth risking everything they still have.

Taiwan has been strangely quiet on this but I get the feeling that they are rooting for Japan here even when they have claims on the same islands. the Senkakus are between Okinawa and Taiwan so if China controlled those as well it would further isolate them from everyone else. China wants Taiwan back badly and even though Taiwan has not officially claimed independence (which China has stated they will not accept) they have been acting as an idependent nation and are treated as an independent nation in most respects by the world in general. I wouldn't be surprised if the whole claim on the Senkakus by China is because they are further trying to pressure Taiwan into submitting to Chinese rule and it has little or nothing to do with Japan at all.

Yeah, I understand your stance on not editing the articles, I just don't think that information should be repeated like that. For a random reader who just stumbles upon an article it sure is useful and necessary, but for people who follow the topic it just gets annoying.

As for conflicting elements in the Chinese government on the proper course of action, I don't think there's any of that - or that there can be any of that, given the nature of their government. I think they're simply approaching the problem from different angles at the same time. And why are they doing it? Well, for the territory, of course, which means resources, possible military outposts, buffer zones...

About Taiwan - I think you're right when you say that it is pretty much an independent country, and the impression that I get from Taiwanese people on the internet is that many of them would rather fight China than join them. Also, I think Taiwan's got the US backing them so I don't think they'll ever reintegrate into China, not unless things change drastically, at least.
 

Ceewan

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As for conflicting elements in the Chinese government on the proper course of action, I don't think there's any of that - or that there can be any of that, given the nature of their government. I think they're simply approaching the problem from different angles at the same time. And why are they doing it? Well, for the territory, of course, which means resources, possible military outposts, buffer zones...


Well, I don't share all I read. There have been a lot of whispers that the people in charge in China are having a hard time controling the people in charge of the military and that there are also divisions within the beaucracy itself. Chinas' government is really a lot more complex than it appears. Remember that China is huge and that it is not empty either, with the largest population in the world it takes a lot of effort to keep all elements of the government and the military on the same page. More easily notable is the purge that Xi Jinping has been making in the last two years of corrupt officials within the PRC. Also of note is that the government of China has gone through a series of changes in the last 20 years. Without going into what other details I am sure of, these are a few more reasons why I formed my previous opinion.

However it was just that, my opinion, not worth arguing about. You are most welcome to your opinion on the subject and it could be you are right. I am not sure that I agree with your assesment, as is my right, but I do respect your position. China is pretty big as it is, more territory; whether it be rock, island chain, or empty sea, is not going to solve any of Chinas' problems, rather it just further complicates them. Pretty sure the current situation is only a mild indicator of that. Doesn't mean you are wrong though. For all I know you might be on the money in your assessment.

I will keep in my mind your opinion about the news articles. If I get further complaints I will consider taking the time to try to edit them. It is a lot easier to just copy and paste them though. Besides aforementioned reasons, I don't get paid to edit news articles of irrelevant information. I also forgot to mention that I use multiple sources, (mostly now I peruse five Japanese news sites that also have editions in English as well as Reuters which along with the AP is often reprinted on those same sites), this would explain at least some of the repetition. So please, for the time being at least, try to ignore the redundancies.
 

Ceewan

Famished
Jul 23, 2008
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Japan posts video of Chinese ships near Senkakus

The Japanese government has posted an online video of Chinese ships that intruded into Japan's territorial waters around the Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea.

Japan controls the islands. The Japanese government maintains the islands are an inherent part of Japan's territory. China and Taiwan claim them.

The government uploaded the video on Monday to the websites of the Japanese foreign ministry and Coast Guard.

The footage was taken by the Coast Guard between August 5th and August 9th. It shows a fleet of Chinese government vessels and fishing boats navigating around the Senkaku Islands.
It also shows a Japanese Coast Guard patrol ship ordering the Chinese government ships that entered the waters to leave the area.

Chinese government vessels have been increasingly active around the Senkaku Islands this month, repeatedly intruding into Japan's territorial waters during a 5-day period.

The ships have not been spotted in the Japanese waters since August 10th, but they are still navigating in the contiguous zone just outside.

Japan's foreign ministry has lodged a protest with the Chinese side multiple times. The Coast Guard is increasing its surveillance of the area.

The Japanese government has apparently released the video in a bid to show unilateral actions from China that could raise tensions. The government may also be trying to persuade China to exert self-restraint.




Yeah, I know...no video. Looking for it, it would have been nice if they had uploaded it to Vimeo or Youtube.
 

Ceewan

Famished
Jul 23, 2008
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Pier for warships built on Chinese isle west of Senkakus


China has built a pier for warships at a site it is developing as a military base to the west of the Senkaku Islands, sources said Friday.

The facility is on the main island in the Nanji chain off the port city of Wenzhou. It may be aimed at addressing contingencies with Japan and the United States, which have both criticized Beijing’s growing assertiveness in the waters, the sources said.

The island chain is about 100 km closer to the Japan-administered Senkakus than Okinawa and its many U.S. military bases.

China also appears keen to strengthen monitoring of the air defense identification zone it declared over the sea in 2013. Neither Japan nor the United States recognize the zone.

The sources said the pier has been built on Nanji Island, and several warships have already been seen using it. The 70- to 80-meter-long pier can also accommodate landing craft.

The islands already have an advanced radar system in place and a heliport for use by carrier-based helicopters. Plans are underway to build a runway for military use, but construction does not appear to have started yet, the sources said. Military aircraft conducted drills in the area in spring, they said.

Tensions over the Senkaku Islands remain high. China and Taiwan claim the uninhabited islets as Diaoyu and Tiaoyutai, respectively. Japan is increasingly concerned about China’s habit of repeatedly sending government vessels into nearby waters there.

A plan is underway to build a major China Coast Guard base in Wenzhou, Zhejiang Province, to support vessels monitoring the Senkakus.

A Japanese was detained in Wenzhou in May last year after purportedly investigating a military facility and later indicted.

Beijing has a string of territorial spats going with other Asian countries, notably the Philippines and Vietnam, in the South China Sea. Japan and the United States have criticized land reclamation by China in the area and the construction of outposts apparently for military purposes.