Miyazaki: iPad Users "Nothing But Chronic Masturbators"

Sakunyuusha

New Member
Jan 27, 2008
1,855
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Sakunyuusha,

if you had stopped to think
Who says I didn't? Oh, that's right: you. Thanks for that showing of respect.

The fact is, his words are crystal clear: and your defense of him is a bent-over-backwards apologetic interpretation of what he said! You are treating his words like they're of Ovid or Horace! Words rich in wisdom, words in need of meticulous scrutiny! When in fact they're just normal words from a filmmaker whose works, while entertaining, aren't exactly worthy of your typical college seminar outside of "Storytelling through Animation".

Let's listen to the man himself one more time, shall we?
I’m sure in short time there will be an increase in people on trains making those strange masturbatory strokes. It was the same when everyone started reading manga on trains, and when it became cellphones – I’m fed up with it.
You see? He's fed up with "it." "It," apparently, being people doing things on the subway rather than daydreaming or twiddling their thumbs while traveling from A to B. "It" being people having items in their hands instead of thin air.

If he had said, "It would be nice if people paused and took the time to just live in the moment, instead of living for the next moment," then that'd be fine. But he didn't say that. Instead, he went on a batty old man tirade against technology. His comparing the use of an iTouch with onanism was going way out on a limb -- and a disturbing one at that! Thanks, Miyazaki! -- and lest we forget:
[The interviewer was] describing how he thought the iPad a good tool for research [when Miyazaki quipped] "You go out into the world without enriching your imagination."
You can spend the next half hour trying to put a spin on these words of his, but I don't need to. I don't need to because they're right there, clear as crystal. Miyazaki was both condescending and incorrect in speaking these words. He was way out of line. The end.

If you want to bow to him out of deference for his unfathomable wisdom, then that's your prerogative. I wouldn't. I may like some of his movies, but that doesn't mean I have to pretend that everything that comes out of his mouth is on par with Socrates or Hume.

:exhausted:
 

Rollyco

Team Tomoe
Oct 4, 2007
3,643
33
13 July 2010
Revealing Japan's low-tech belly
By Michael Fitzpatrick
BBC News
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10543126

Many of Japan's older men - who are those most likely to run a business - have a marked preference to stay offline even in the office, says Tokyo-based entrepreneur Terrie Lloyd.
 

guy

(;Θ_Θ)ゝ”
Feb 11, 2007
2,281
46
Miyazaki has every right to be critical if he wants; the man has created some great art and knows his stuff. (But of course you don't have to listen to him if you don't want to.)



To offer a counterpoint, try not to think of his statement as merely a criticism of technology and gadgets.

In Japan, really great anime and manga is dying. It's not that there aren't great writers and great artists (and not just in Japan), but in the world of business, all of their work is being outsourced to cheaper laborers elsewhere.

Artists like Miyazaki spend their lives in photography, studying horticulture, understanding how the eye perceives motion through blurring, developing concepts of proportion/field of view/framing/perspective, etc.

Take a look at the end credits of any recent serial anime, or recent episode of Family Guy, Simpsons, or Futurama: the animation is done by cheap artists in Korea. No offense to them -- they get the job done for what those shows need -- but they're just tracing shapes and have no real experience in developing art (or at least no opportunity to demonstrate any experience they do have).

Faced with those odds, truly great artists like Miyazaki and the countless other great artists are struggling just to stay afloat. People all over the world love the anime and manga they create, but they barely break even. The only people who really make money are the publishers who send work off to the cheapest artists to increase their profit margins.

I know it sounds counterintuitive to say this all revolves around money (shouldn't art be created for the sake of art?), but that's the cold hard truth. Without money, artists can't invest in training and discover hidden talents. There are a lot of young artists out there with incredible potential, but they are discouraged from becoming an artist because of how impossible it is to make a living. (Did you know the inventor of Pac-Man has seen basically no profit from the success of his own invention? He still lives a simple life and holds a mundane office job.) As it is, no matter how good you are, you will never earn more money than your outsourced counterparts; and if you give in and accept a job tracing shapes, then you are no artist.



I don't believe Miyazaki was out to simply take a jab at iPad users. The generation has changed, and for anime and manga, not for the better. Miyazaki isn't talking about the basic idea of consumerism (capitalism): what we're moving towards is impulse-driven consumption (instant downloads; shows that don't add anything substantive to an anime, but are there just to increase content or spur sales of goods; people who follow brands just to be fashionable; etc). It's not that Miyazaki has had a particularly hard life, but everything he stands for is up against this new type of consumerism. Just like how American Idol is incredibly popular, and yet comparatively few people bother going to the opera and seeing real artists. In this world of on-demand instant gratification, there is no room for people like Miyazaki.

The iPad just happens to be a convenient way to put a face on this problem. No one really needs an iPad; even if you get one, you probably won't do anything special with it; and anyone who has an iPad will probably use it in a way that wastes time when they could be out, experiencing the beauty of this world with the short time they have on earth. (Yes, it's their time to waste, but the point is that it's a shame to waste that time, and yet we all do it willfully.)

Sure, we will still have anime and manga for years to come, but the likelihood of any of it becoming iconic is steadily diminishing. Most shows will live to see one or two runs, and their artists will get a brief taste of success (but I guarantee their publishers will take all their money), and then will be quickly forgotten (as already happens). The only shows that will last are the ones that can push sales of goods, like Pokemon and Dragonball (stories which really offer nothing special, and only get more and more bizzare as writers grasp at straws to keep the show going).

So no, you don't have to listen to him. But if he's right, great art dies in our own hands.



For anyone who wants additional reading for another way to qualify the arguments I made, I suggest this article from Cracked discussing some behavioral science in relation to video games -- pay attention to reason #1 on Page 2. (Yes, I know it's Cracked, but they do their research and put it into easily digestible terms.)
Code:
http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-creepy-ways-video-games-are-trying-to-get-you-addicted.html

And for the record, I don't mind if you want an iPad or absolutely love American Idol. Everyone is entitled to do with their lives as they wish. I just hope we don't end up as a generation that buys gadgets and spends countless hours in front of the idiot box, simply letting others fill a void for us in exchange for our wallets, when we could be out filling that void ourselves with something more meaningful.



Also, anyone who thinks Ghibli Studio just makes anime for kids doesn't know what they're talking about. There, I said it.
 

Sakunyuusha

New Member
Jan 27, 2008
1,855
3
Need I remind you, guy, that he bitched and nagged about Japanese passengers reading manga on the trains, too? You make this man out to be a paragon of the animation industry (because of his internationally renowned and critically-acclaimed works), but his own words paint a very different picture. I don't get the impression that Miyazaki particularly cares all that much for the manga crowd. If he did, he wouldn't say such things as he has said.
 

guy

(;Θ_Θ)ゝ”
Feb 11, 2007
2,281
46
I'm just arguing for the opposite side, because in reality I think the truth of what he meant lies somewhere in between. Some people may not be particularly eloquent when it comes to speaking, but that doesn't mean what they might be trying to say isn't worth considering.

As for reading manga on a train, it might sound like a completely benign act -- and it is certainly one's own choice to do so -- but neither is it particularly admirable or defensible. I'd say his commentary is less a criticism of the act of reading on trains and more a general social commentary, that (Japanese) society has become so numb and lifeless that we have to resort to cheap paperback thrills to stay awake, or in lamenting the condition of Japanese whose only source of imagination is limited to their daily commute (really, manga could be much more than a magazine you bought to kill 20 minutes on a train, which you will just as quickly throw away once you arrive at your station).

I'm not saying he's absolutely right, in fact I completely acknowledge that he very may well have already gone off the deep end. But that doesn't mean we can't pick apart his words to see if there's any truth (about anime or the Japanese social consciousness) in what he says.



Edit-- Let me try to put it a little differently:
Here in Japan, I see lots of kids everywhere, eyes glued to their Nintendo DS. It's fine if you want to play DS as a quick form of entertainment (maybe a way for parents to keep their kids occupied during a long car trip, or boring errands, etc). But I see kids going to parks, going on vacation, meeting up with their friends, and yet all they do is keep playing on their DS. The world that they see (their interests, what they talk about, what they look forward to, what they spend their allowance on) is greatly limited to what they see in their games.

It doesn't mean that it turns them into bad or socially inept individuals, but instead of going out and seeing what all the world has to offer (and then turning it into something meaningful for themselves), they're only interested in what companies put out in order to make money. Any meaningfulness they can hope to give to their lives is at the mercy of the consumerist machine.

Of all the pivotal memories any of us can recall in our own past, how many of them are of that summer when I had a Grand Theft Auto marathon? Sure, when you're playing a game, it's enjoyable (and that by itself is just fine), but 5 years down the line nothing has really changed.

The iPad (and it's not just the iPad) is the same. Sure it's a neat gadget, and it's fun to own and use one. But most people will just use it to update their Twitter, post photos on Facebook, send some quick emails, and browse the web. It doesn't inspire you to skip the last train and see what the nightlife in your neighborhood is like, or to play hookie and explore a new part of town. Once most people get tired of their iPads, their lives probably won't be particularly enriched because of the iPad; and really, it probably only serves as a distraction from those unique opportunities.




I own a cellphone, several computers, and a number of devices for when I crave "instant gratification" (watching TV shows to keep me entertained while I eat dinner, etc). But at the same rate, I will periodically leave my computer, turn my phone off (or just avoid answering calls), and go out and do something spontaneous (photography is a hobby of mine) -- I'm usually rewarded with some photos that I never imagined taking, and a sense that the time I spent was truly worthwhile. Maybe one day you turn off the GPS and just allow yourself to get lost; perhaps pull over to a local bakery you never noticed before to ask for directions, and then discover they have really good cupcakes. The GPS would have given you exactly what you want, but otherwise you might not have known that there was something else out there waiting for you.

On the trains, I see salarymen who look like ghosts, who knows how many years they've slaved at their 9am-7pm desk jobs. It's a shame that their only form of escape is a cheap manga (perhaps a manga about having a better life). I know it's not my place to be critical and tell them to take things into their own hands; but that's sort of the point.

If the only world you see is based on what companies produce for you to consume, then it is no more meaningful from one manga to another, one product to another, one year to another (When will they release iPad 2? iPad 3? If you die happy, is it because you lived long enough to buy the iPad 50?). But if you go out and take what the world has to offer and make something out of it for yourself, then that is something all your own, meaningful in and of itself.
 

Ceewan

Famished
Jul 23, 2008
9,198
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Kenpachi God

Cpt. Of the 11th Squad
Apr 23, 2009
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nerevarine

New Member
Jun 29, 2010
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Are you kidding me? The man has no right berating others for not having experienced what it's like to be a slave onboard a trireme. He has never nor will he ever be a slave onboard a trireme. It's a completely juvenile argument for him to have made. Shameful.

That trireme example is simply to highlight the obsurdity of experiencing the world through an iPad. It is not a literal example by which to criticize someone. The fact that you keep harping on this means you are a fool. You miss his point.

Let me spell it out for you: It doesn't matter if he's never been on a trireme because he has in-depth knowledge of planes and flight. And guess what? He makes great movies about flight. He also has detailed, first hand knowledge about Japan. Guess what? He also makes good movies about Japan. These are two experiences you likely do not have. Thus, you are nothing but a consumer.

Miyazaki, on the other hand, is a consumer AND a creator. Everybody can be a consumer AND a creator. You can be both, and I think this is what Miyazaki is saying.
 

nerevarine

New Member
Jun 29, 2010
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Need I remind you, guy, that he bitched and nagged about Japanese passengers reading manga on the trains, too? You make this man out to be a paragon of the animation industry (because of his internationally renowned and critically-acclaimed works), but his own words paint a very different picture. I don't get the impression that Miyazaki particularly cares all that much for the manga crowd. If he did, he wouldn't say such things as he has said.

Good god, I find your bitching hilarious! Miyazaki must have really wounded you with his comments. I don't normally double post but....

This guy has dedicated 20+ years to anime and manga. He has a studio that is the bedrock of the animation industry. His influences permeate almost every aspect of Japanese media in some small way. What the hell man, how can you say he doesn't care for "the manga crowd", i.e. - his fans. He has only dedicated his entire life to creating good manga and anime which you have no doubt enjoyed and you poo-poo on him because he makes fun of your little iPad?

I need to remind you that the man could have retired 10 years ago but kept making anime to please you little ungrateful otakus.

Fact: The walkman became obsolete in 30 years.

Prediction: The iPad will become obsolete in 15.

Prediction: Miyazaki films will continue to be popular 50+ years from now.
 

Sakunyuusha

New Member
Jan 27, 2008
1,855
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Oh look. A troll. :burningheat:

Let me spell it out for you: It doesn't matter if he's never been on a trireme because he has in-depth knowledge of planes and flight.
And I'm the fool? LOL Your logic is schizophrenic. "It doesn't matter that he's never been on a nuclear submarine during wartime before because he has deep knowledge of organic chemistry."

And I'll say it one more time: I'm not saying that he's shitting on the manga crowd because of his iPad comments. I am saying that he's shitting on the manga crowd because of his manga comments. Open your eyes, re-read what he said and what I said, and troll another day.
 

Syobon

(´・ω・`)
Dec 22, 2009
222
0
Good god, I find your bitching hilarious! Miyazaki must have really wounded you with his comments. I don't normally double post but....

This guy has dedicated 20+ years to anime and manga. He has a studio that is the bedrock of the animation industry. His influences permeate almost every aspect of Japanese media in some small way. What the hell man, how can you say he doesn't care for "the manga crowd", i.e. - his fans. He has only dedicated his entire life to creating good manga and anime which you have no doubt enjoyed and you poo-poo on him because he makes fun of your little iPad?

I need to remind you that the man could have retired 10 years ago but kept making anime to please you little ungrateful otakus.

Fact: The walkman became obsolete in 30 years.

Prediction: The iPad will become obsolete in 15.

Prediction: Miyazaki films will continue to be popular 50+ years from now.

I completely disagree :ban:... the iPad will become obsolete in no more than 3 years (i'm being optimistic) :tehheh:
 

Rollyco

Team Tomoe
Oct 4, 2007
3,643
33
The model of interaction with the iPad is to be a "consumer," what William Gibson memorably described as "something the size of a baby hippo, the color of a week-old boiled potato, that lives by itself, in the dark, in a double-wide on the outskirts of Topeka. It's covered with eyes and it sweats constantly. The sweat runs into those eyes and makes them sting. It has no mouth... no genitals, and can only express its mute extremes of murderous rage and infantile desire by changing the channels on a universal remote."
William Gibson, I love you.
 

Kenpachi God

Cpt. Of the 11th Squad
Apr 23, 2009
182
11
I was wrong again, after read that text I think iPad should never been born

I think your an angel who just read my mind :piripi: :grassdance: