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End of Rape in ero anime and games?

Discussion in 'Hentai Discussion' started by reingiolt, May 11, 2009.

  1. Sakunyuusha

    Sakunyuusha New Member

    Is this a saying where you come from? First time I've ever heard it, just wondering if it's (1) a non-English saying translated directly into English, (2) regional English, or (3) something you've come up with given the connotation of lemons with sour faces.

    I mean ... quite frankly, I love lemons, and would gladly suck on one. o_O

    Then again, I love eggs, too.
     
  2. elgringo14

    elgringo14 Survived to Japan Super Moderator

    Intentionally useless post for tofufa, who almost got a Godwin point.

    I prefer Cream Lemons :XD:
     
  3. daredemonai

    daredemonai Retiree

    tofufa, you missed the point of my post. Nowhere do I say that rape games lead to rape. I do not believe they lead to rape. If you do not fully understand something, perhaps you should be cautious when reacting to it. もうちょっと英語をマスターしてから討論に参加しましょうね。:goodboy:

    BTW, Sakunyuusha, "suck a lemon" is an English idiom, though you don't hear it much these days. It's a somewhat less rude way of telling me to go fuck myself. :dunno:
     
  4. Sakunyuusha

    Sakunyuusha New Member

    American English? Australian English? British English? I swear it must be a dialectal idiom, because I don't know that I have ever heard it. I'll be amazed if you tell me you're from around where I grew up and that's where you heard it. O_O

    And I knew what it meant. :p As the 4chan crowd says, "an obvious troll is ... well, obvious." Of course, they say it much more memetically than that, but I'd feel sullied to even type it out. -_-;
     
  5. tofufa

    tofufa New Member

    Why don't you tell us where are you from?

    Dear less knowledgeable forum poster. Perhaps you could tell us more what you study and your level of English competency. May be then, we can deduce why you lack the knowledge you lack.

    Ah, so you can at least deduced what that saying meant. Guess your mental capacity is better than your English competency. That's at least a little comforting, because you know, discussing with someone lack the ability to reason is somewhat meaningless.

    At least now my effort to communicate with you won't be in vain.

    For kicks, I googled it up and found this little funny website.
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0159218/quotes

    Adding to that, go look up "suck a lemon", you'll see multiple people of the English speaking nations using it. So, really, I am more interested in knowing where you are from and where do YOU grow up.



    [/i]Now to self-implied Reading comprehension expert "daredemonai":
    Let's see the premise of the argument.
    This organization proposed to ban "rape games" because they think it leads to rape. (or to put it better, they have a problem with how the game "disrespectfully use female anatomy and worry that others will see that and think it's ok".

    Please correct me if I am wrong on their intention and/or reasoning.

    From *just* the quote I quoted you, first you demean anyone disagrees. Then you go on with your *personal* experience that Japanese Police doesn't do squat, unless it's a "slam dunK" case. ( and here you make a generalization to ALL cases does that in Japan) That including raping cases of course.

    Then you go on, "I know Japanese women got rape...". Which is interesting in itself, that you know multiple Japanese got rape. Not only that, but they all didn't choose to report.
    That smells like BS.

    But let's assume you have, unless rape is that common that everyone knows multiple women that got rape. Or there is something special about you that makes it more frequent for you to encounter those individuals. (if that's the case, you ain't talking about the norm. stop making it sound as a norm.)

    If rape is that common, there must be something wrong with the Japanese report, I would go bitch to CNN with your inside knowledge to make this issue known to the rest of the world.


    An interesting sub conclusion is that, 1) you are obviously NOT a police officer in japan. With your story how the japan police doesn't do squat nor their willingness to help you on your theft. (holding a grudge there, aren't we?)

    2) So, what's left that knows a lot of rape victims? I can come up with the actual serial rapist, journalist and those organization to help the victims. (or an association to those parties)

    So, which one are you? I infer you are not a journalist, or you would've be smart enough to write about the giant cover up of Japanese rape # piece. (perhaps, you weren't smart enough? )
    I hope you are not a serial rapist, or that will tarnish the reputation online community more (if that's possible.. ) .
    Or you are those self-righteous organization associate? (but with the way you post, I doubt that. Or may be you are, /shrug )

    Ok, was a little sidetracked, but back on your accusation.

    It's obvious, you are somewhat supporting the "equality now" organization. Wouldn't it be intuition that you support their argument too? So spare me with your, "but I didn't say that in my post" argument. You didn't have to state it.
     
  6. Sakunyuusha

    Sakunyuusha New Member

  7. daredemonai

    daredemonai Retiree

  8. reingiolt

    reingiolt 二マ...

  9. Sakunyuusha

    Sakunyuusha New Member

    Thoughts.
    1. The letter does an admirable job of catching lay people up to speed with our terms. It's a little loose in places (don't get me started!), but I would hope that most hentai fans would agree that Equality Now did not deliberately stretch the truth when trying to define terms like "hentai" or "lolicon," nor did they exaggerate in their description of the specific scenarios one commonly encounters in hentai (e.g. teachers having sex with students).
    2. This is from the middle of the letter:

      This sounds serious, but there's a lot of information we don't know. How exactly did EN contact the authorities? Whom did they specifically contact? And in what manner? English or Japanese? Fluent or non-fluent? Letter, telephone call, or in-person interview? Why does any of this matter? Because! Think about it: what if all that happened was a simple case of miscommunication?

      What if the police thought EN was screaming at them because of perceived child pornography? So the police wrote back and said, "Look, there aren't any children here." What if the police genuinely mistook the content of the video for an acted-out rape porno and not genuine rape caught on camera? What if EN mistook the police's attitude as chauvinist indifference towards the rape of innocent women when in fact the police didn't even think it was rape to begin with?

      For such an eloquent letter, it would have been much appreciated by this reader to know (a) the manner in which this conversation took place and (b) what exactly was said. Until I know those two things, I will refrain from judging the moral integrity of the Japanese police officer or officers whom EN contacted.
    3. And last but certainly not least!

      VERY OBSERVANT, LADIES! :D Good job! Wow! These girls know the game pretty damn well! XD No fooling them! They are as in the know as anyone here on Akiba-Online! Dayum! Good, good job. Even if I don't want them to ban rape from fictional sexual media, I applaud their integrity of research. They definitely don't seem to just pull stuff out from their asses. This is a very well-researched, objective criticism they are raising. Good job!
     
  10. Sakunyuusha

    Sakunyuusha New Member

    Question: if Equality Now's platform is gender equality -- which is a different platform from the advancement of women over men! -- then I have to ask why this letter focuses so heavily on the rape of school girls and of women and not human beings in general. While not nearly as common in porn, the theme of women forcing themselves on men is quite prevalent in hentai. And it goes in so many different directions!

    - sometimes the little sister forces herself onto her big brother
    - sometimes it's the older sister who does it to the younger brother
    - sometimes it's a female classmate who tires of the boy's indecisiveness and forces the first few moves upon him
    - sometimes it's Mary Kay Letourneau in anime form as she proceeds to foot-fuck a male student's dick and gradually warm him up to the idea of having sex with his teacher

    I don't think Equality Now means to fight against rape in fictional sexual media. I think their genuine goal is to fight against the sexual objectification of women in such media. And that's something I can't deny: hentai definitely portrays women as the closer of the two genders to being a bonafide sex object. Either everyone's pretty or just the girl is. Ugly guys fuck women -- any woman will do, but normally the women are hot -- while ugly girls rarely get to have any sex. Whenever a girl calls over her tutor, she's either hoping to have sex or else she isn't but is pleasantly surprised when he makes the moves on her anyway. Whenever a sister and a brother are in the bathtub together, either the sister wants to have sex or else she doesn't but soon gives in and enjoys it anyway. Almost always, whether the woman is portrayed as victorious or not, whether she enjoys a happy ending or a bleak and miserable one, almost always does she encounter sex. And in so doing, it is fair to say that hentai portrays women as being inextricable from sex. Hentai programs men to think "women, sex. Sex, women." When there are no women in the scene, there's never any sex. When there are women in the scene, there's bound to be sex in just a few moments.

    But the thing is, that's what all porn does! It sexually objectifies the main characters! When I watch a porno of Hamasaki Rio pretending to be a teacher, I could give two shits about her professional interests, her salary, how long she's been working there, who her favorite students are, etc. Teacher, nurse, maid: the profession serves as nothing more than a fetish, a garnish if you will for the main course -- her, Hamasaki Rio, a delicious woman made from meat and fat and bone and spirit. It is the woman, in all her sexual glory, who I have tuned in to see -- not the teacher, not the daughter, not the mother, but the woman.

    So, fundamentally, I think that Equality Now is dilly-dallying. I think that they know who their true opponent is but they know that if they go up against him guns a-blazin' that they'll lose the people's support.

    Why? Because, fundamentally, their real enemy is pornography period.

    Does porn sexually objectify women? Yes. Case closed: Equality Now is against the sexual objectification of women, therefore they are against pornography period.
     
  11. xeruel

    xeruel 黒英雄伝説

    Waving my Middle Finger to Equality now !!! this shit getting on my nerves, I don't see a connection between Hentai and Gender Equality ???? (did they can't get a job because of hentai ?? fuck no!) why did they blame Hentai ? there are tons of gender equality matter more than Hens when they should be stopping real world prostitution business,child sexual abuse,women workers being payed too cheap and all sorts of those things
     
  12. Sakunyuusha

    Sakunyuusha New Member

    I suppose what I wanted to say, in brief, was that hentai certainly does portray women as bitches in heat; but it also portrays men as dogs.

    I'll explain it a different way again, but the above is really all I wanted to point out. It is true that women are portrayed as starved for sex in hentai, but men are portrayed even more so to be such beastly creatures, so I really don't think it's fair of the women to say that hentai is chauvinistic.

    [hide]Consider the following scenario:

    Does this story serve to objectify women? Certainly. "Women are good as servants and baby-making machines," Equality Now might say of this comic's message. After all, all the mom did was come up with snacks. All the girl did was have a sexy body. No other skills.

    No other skills, though? Is that true? Then what about the guy!? At least the girl was smart at math! At least the girl could pay attention! At least the girl wasn't sex-obsessed like Ryuu was! When it mattered most, all he could think about was her boobs. His best friend's boobs! Wtf, Ryuu! She came over here to help you study and all you can think of is fucking her?

    "What's wrong with that depiction of a man?" I can almost imagine someone in Equality Now asking me this question. I can imagine daredemonai scolding me for suggesting they would do this. ^^; But it's true! The depiction of Ryuu-kun is atrocious. The author, a fellow man himself and writing this comic for men around the world to masturbate to, has made Ryuu out to be a boy who like all teenage boys stereotypically cannot think of anything else but sex, especially not when presented with such a beautiful young lady such as his best friend! There in his bedroom!

    If the gender roles were reversed -- and they rarely are in these types of stories, since even the male tutors more often than not are led on by the girls they tutor -- I am sure that EN would raise holy hell. They would object that the woman was being portrayed as a dunce. As a meatsack who is only good for fucking and making babies. "Oh, so the boy gets to be the smart one! The boy has self-control! The boy thinks about things other than sex! We see how it is!"

    But they don't because they can't because no such comic commonly exists. The gender roles aren't reversed. It is the male who's portrayed as a sex-starved idiot who, on the verge of failing out of mathematics, can think of nothing else besides "1 + 1 = 3." (Translation: baby-making.)[/hide]
     
  13. redrooster

    redrooster 赤いオンドリ - 私はオタクです! Staff Member Super Moderator

    @xeruel

    ...because all you mentioned is in the fog of discretion, everyone knows that these things exist, but you cannot get your hand on it, it is a crime or a job everywhere committed or done but you hardly can find evidence for it, so you hardly can punish it by law, when children are sold by their parents for child prostitution in some countries so that possibly both parents and children can survive...

    ...or 10 years old girls are married by force to a 50 years old man as in some countries too...

    ...or a child is raped by it´s own father, uncle or brother, and everything is kept under complete silence as in many countries on this planet...

    Hentai however has companies publishing it, they have a website, an address and a phone no. ...

    They just go the easiest way. But hentai is virtual only, so noone really is harmed, the other things I mentioned are real!
     
  14. xeruel

    xeruel 黒英雄伝説

    True very true, they pick easiest visible target and unlikely to strike back like some bullies than concentrating on essential heavy matter (like child prostitution etc) where they could be faced with a crime syndicate endangering their lives....

    like red said Hens are virtual, no one is harmed so why should they after it ??? even if they are serious they should start with AV rape porn than Hens ! Fuck these Equality Now bitches !(profanity out, boiling blood in my head)
     
  15. reingiolt

    reingiolt 二マ...

    if only all eroge, ero ani and ero manga companies all over Japan would unite and only release stuff that only contain women raping men for a few months. I'd be interesting to see what EN's reaction would be. :lols:
     
  16. Sakunyuusha

    Sakunyuusha New Member

    Not a fan of dominatrixes or pushy women so I'd be pretty sore. But it'd be worth it just for this. lol
     
  17. redrooster

    redrooster 赤いオンドリ - 私はオタクです! Staff Member Super Moderator

    are there any ero animes where women rape men? In my mind there are only "My life as a chicken" and "Aneki ep. 2" (the threesome) atm...
     
  18. reingiolt

    reingiolt 二マ...

    i'm also puzzled by the lack of that genre in ero animes. maybe it's some sort of taboo.

    another alternative would be to completely erase male characters. just yuri and futa. dear god that's gonna be like heaven to me. hentaiben's not gonna be too happy though hehe
     
  19. Sakunyuusha

    Sakunyuusha New Member

    Is it rape if the man says no at first but in the end he likes it? Is it rape if he says no but in his heart he probably wants it and is just too ashamed or embarrassed to admit it?

    Switch the gender roles around and feminist groups would eagerly shout, "YES! IT'S RAPE!", so I'm going to have to say that it's rape here, too.

    And in that case, there are plenty of hentai stories where a woman "rapes" a boy or a man. But are there plenty for hentai anime, specifically? Hmm ... I guess not. But there are some!

    • Kiss x Sis prominently features attempted rape of Keita by his two older sisters. But it's showcased as "happy, playful rape."
    • Eromanga MitaiNa Koi Shiyou's 2nd episode featured a horny younger sister raping her older brother. It was what you'd call "happy rape," too, with the boy not wanting it but seeing it as more an embarrassing inconvenience than anything else, but if "unwanted sex" is rape, then that scene was most definitely rape at its onset
    • Taimanin Asagi's 1st episode shows Oboro raping Keisuke, Asagi's fiancé

    It might not be as common as in the comics, and most of the examples may be a lot more light-hearted than their gender-role-swapped counterparts, but the Oboro/Keisuke scene in Asagi is proof that hardcore, mean-spirited raping by women of men can and does take place in hentai anime.
     
  20. xeruel

    xeruel 黒英雄伝説

    aww come on.... , in Discipline there are plenty of man raping, in warau kangofu, women at work etc..... I've seen more than enough hens when girls make the first move to either seduce or rape the guy