End of r*** in ero anime and games?

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techie

SuupaOtaku
Jul 24, 2008
568
4
I must say this discussion is surely very much on topic no matter what you guys (and ladies... sorry for being so darn male oriented in my writing) have said before.
I don't think any of this above is off topic in any way as it all ties in together to the simple fact of humans and their sometimes incomprehensible behavior.

I also firmly believe we don't hear from media much until an issue is so big that it sells newspapers/airtime on TV and so on.

For sure, all they are interested in, is to make money on their audience, and they simply piggy-back on the whole concept of free advertising for writing popular stuff. So also with some reasoning behind TBS approaching a topic in such a way that it "creates" headlines when none exists solely to sell an extra few copies or minutes of air time.

Don't ever forget good folks, that journalists mostly get paid by the printed word, and editors main chore is to edit other peoples text to a bare minimum, not to deliver the full story, but to need to pay their employees less for a "reasonably similar" story. Who in that sense ever cared about the truth. (I speak from personal experience there since when I was much younger than today, I used to work for a news agency. One of the larger.)

On the next issue, I agree completely with Spacebird.
I belong to a generation raised on Donald Duck, and in fact at age 5 I learned to read from the help of a white duck and a crazy mouse.

Never once have I pondered having a super safe styled Uncle Scrooge, or dive in gold as I know it would hurt very badly.

It seems, once more, an issue of popular belief setting a trend in legislators minds rather than scientific proof of anyone acting out on actions in games, rather than the person acting out such things having some serious deficiencies well before playing the game in question.

It is as age old and seen before as for instance the issue of Gay parades and people trying to justify their stigma with some people being sexually different. How many times in a decade don't we hear someone coming up with one more wacky idea than before about how homosexuality for instance is a medicinal state, or illness. Only to later find out there is no scientific proof for such statements whatsoever. Genetic, possible. Medicinal, no way.

It is simply a way for the human mind to try to shield itself from dealing with real issues and what they directly do not understand themselves, that leads to this mass hysteria of chasing make-belief bad guys.

A perfect example of this, when it comes to r*** and child abuse is seen in the recent legislations banning one thing after another. As a parallel, at the present the main suspect in a known European case of possible child abduction, is avoiding questioning by investigators by simply saying no to an interview, where it would be truly simple for the local police to just walk in and ask the questions as he lies in his hospital bed in a public hospital.

Instead of going after this known, previously convicted, pedo, the law is chasing comic book readers and game makers, where the real trouble makers go free.

In other words, the whole thing is a sham to make media happy, settle concerns of the less informed and deliver some form of construed justice.

If it works in the long-run without impairing civil liberties, I seriously don't think so.

Do people swallow it?
Apparently, since we don't hear much complaints against the continued lack of action where it really counts. In my opinion, people are simple minded if they keep thinking the "activist groups" in question really where doing something, they would go to the apparent root of the problem when it is written in their faces where it lays.

Sorry about this rant, but when you look at the overall picture, it's all related somehow.
 

HENTAIBEN

The Nesta
May 13, 2007
472
0
So I guess r*** games are now officially banned...again?

Click

I don't even know what to say. I don't suppose they're going to come back and say they aren't banned again this time, are they?
 

elgringo14

Survived to Japan
Super Moderator
Apr 28, 2008
9,094
337
I guess this extreme action done by law extremists on such extreme material will lead to extreme reactions...

Did I say that extremism of all kind is wrong ? :XD:

I won't discuss whether it's a good move or not.
I'm just amazed how fast the events went. It's even more crazy than the ban itself, especially if you consider the long-term tradition of Japan with erotic stuff.
If the japanese politicians start to look closer at their home adult production, they should be horrified.
 

daredemonai

Retiree
Mar 19, 2009
980
1,404
Here's a translation of the Abel Group's report on the EOCS meeting:

http://matt-thorn.com/wordpress/?p=361

EDIT: The Abel Group decided to delete the report on its blog, as well as a subsequent post. If you want to read the translation, you'd better do it before Thorn decides to delete it. (Just a week or so ago he deleted correspondence about the Handley case.)
 

Sakunyuusha

New Member
Jan 27, 2008
1,855
3
There does still appear to be a loophole. I read that the EOCS's early action might kill the Parliament's desire to discuss this. In other words, "the matter has already been internally resolved," and they'll go back to discussing more important matters like the state of the Japanese economy, population, national defense, etc. But in truth, the only games that can now no longer have r*** in them will be games produced by members of the EOCS. What does this mean? It means that off-label games could still have r***.

1. Games produced by Japanese non-members of the EOCS (i.e. 同人ソフト) would still be legal and would not be subject to the EOCS's standards.

2. Games imported from overseas would also still be legal and would not be subject to the EOCS's standards.

That the EOCS rapidly banned r*** games does not mean that they're giving up the legal fight. Rather, it's a covert means to ending that fight. Or so they hope! They're hoping that Equality Now and, now that the fire's been fanned domestically, Japanese activists as well will consider the matter resolved and a victory in their favor. It would be like if Sony's PS3 could play fan-made games (...) and if the ESRB folks came out and told the public, "We have decided to ban r*** in all video games published by Nintendo, Sony, or Microsoft." So? What if the game is published by Duke Drezzlin of Boston, Massachusetts? What if it's published by Sally Hattenfield of Madison, Wisconsin? What if the fledgling video game company JuicyGrapefruit came out and published it? Until the subject matter is legally forbidden, it's still very much fair game.

That, I think, is what the EOCS is banking on: the hope that Equality Now et al will consider the fight over when really it hasn't even begun. Vice versa, if Equality Now et al are not stupid and if they continue to press for legal change, then I think we can expect much voiced opposition in Parliament.
 

daredemonai

Retiree
Mar 19, 2009
980
1,404
Sakunyuusha, I basically agree, but I do get the impression from Abel Group's deleted post that the EOCS is serious about banning members from making and selling r*** games. But of course, you are right: there is nothing to stop non-members from making the games, and people who are seriously into them will be able to access them. But they won't be on shelves in software shops, or on major online shops, and everyone will be happy. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me. :relax-bath:
 

Cloud187

Banned
Feb 27, 2007
56
0
honestly IMO who the hell cares let them ban it.... I am not a guro fan but if you guys like it i cant complain everyone has their fetishes.

I say let them ban it because when things like this get banned they become 4x more popular and widely available thanks to the internet and p2p. Honestly I am surprised people are even pissed about this ?? who cares so what they wanna ban something big deal does not mean that you still cant go download it. It also wont stop manga rings in japan from making new guro manga and games BIG DEAL. Banning it is a stupid move its just going to come back 2 times as hard. I do not mind r*** but I personally do not agree with abortions I think it is wrong especially in this case it does not set good examples for young hentai fans regardless of how smart or brainless someone is. You cant force people to take a life i do not agree with that even virtually its a pointless fetish IMO people that like this stuff should just move onto a similar counterpart fetish.

It is not even a big deal guys so what they ban it so what if it becomes illegal let they do what they want we cant stop them and they are only making things worse for themselfs and better for people who play these games sure they may stop making them for a year or 2 but later down the line it will become taboo and when a fetish becomes taboo more people want more of it so its only going to fuck these idiots in the ass. The part that shocks me the most is how the hell they find out about crap like this ?? i mean this shit is pretty underground as it is even if it was mainstream how the hell are women finding out about this stuff ? I mean its not like many girls hop on a p2p tracker or download site and start downloading mad porn and hentai games its just not "standard" most women occupy themselfs with real life or crap that you would never care about. It amazes me they even find out about this shit.

Maybe I am wrong, regardless I think the whole situation is pointless and stupid to even follow this is going no where nothing is going to change even if they ban it.....just my 2 cents I guess.

If anyone has opinions to share about my post feel free just no bashing peoples keep in mind i just woke up and i was only speaking my mind on a subject I give a rats ass about.
 

elgringo14

Survived to Japan
Super Moderator
Apr 28, 2008
9,094
337
rofl at the last post.

You say you don't care about the ban, but you still make a big fuss about the whole issue. I am myself completely uninterested about hentai games (whatever is their subject), but I find the recent stories interesting to follow, especially the "fans" reactions.

Though I agree to your statement about the consequences, the companies will find a solution to circumvent anything going against their business, legally or not.
After all some companies are selling hentai games using rips of "normal" anime characters (I mean like Bleach, Naruto or Gundam) without hassle.
It's just a question of marketing them the right way. First don't call a r*** game "r*** Simulator" or "The Rapelay" :XD:
And selling games directly on the internet makes controls much more difficult.

Anyway that's my one cent and half
 

Sakunyuusha

New Member
Jan 27, 2008
1,855
3
I am not a guro fan
Yeah, about that: I think you might have the wrong thread. This is a discussion about banning r*** from eroges. "r***" and "guro" are about as interchangeable as "loli" and "tentacles." Heck, the majority of r*** scenes in hentai show absolutely no blood precisely because so many of the men who enjoy fictionalized f***rced sex are also turned off by things like blood or causing serious physical harm.
 

Sakunyuusha

New Member
Jan 27, 2008
1,855
3
Lmfao, this is how common r*** is in hentai. I was going back through the latest issue of Tenma (2009 06) and look what I found on the Table of Contents page. I'll give you a clue: the first word has four letters while the second word has only two. ;p
 

techie

SuupaOtaku
Jul 24, 2008
568
4
It doesn't matter what anyone thinks online either apparently, until someone does something outrageous in return. Then the "feminist groups" and TBS with followers, and other weaklings in governments will say "Oh look what we said, they are all radical and must be stopped", so it will give them more fuel on the fire if protests are to loudly voiced.

What is truly a scary aspect is the fact that bloggers start pulling editorials of their pages to quiet down the complaints from these same lawmakers, because they know on their end that if more people find out whats going on they will end up with a virtual riot on their hands.

It is already coming out as censorship by pressure from above, even before any laws are passed.

Are we not entitled to question the sanity of legal actions and rulings anymore, or is it, that these actions would simply not hold up under scrutiny if we do all send our questions to them at once?

How many people does it take, statistically speaking, to sign a petition against these seemingly moronic rulings, before they understand they have a massive horde of people worldwide, wondering what these groups are truly good for?
 

Cloud187

Banned
Feb 27, 2007
56
0
Yeah, about that: I think you might have the wrong thread. This is a discussion about banning r*** from eroges. "r***" and "guro" are about as interchangeable as "loli" and "tentacles." Heck, the majority of r*** scenes in hentai show absolutely no blood precisely because so many of the men who enjoy fictionalized f***rced sex are also turned off by things like blood or causing serious physical harm.

yea about that : i think i read the rite thread because any game that makes women have abortions is considered guro in my books at least :murder:
 

cattz

(◣_◢)
Jun 11, 2007
305
5
Oh no, they're renaming games!!?!?

What will they do next!!! Ban loli's in games?!!?

Oh wait...they ALL READY DID!

:yell:

How did that work out? Oh yeah, they just added "All characters appearing in the work are over the age of 18" as a loophole to get around featuring girls that look like they're 12..

I'm sure they wouldn't just do it again and add a "All girls consent to all sexual activity in the material" loophole or just not title the games something like "r*** r*** Screaming Paradise" or the like!




Anyways, turning off the sarcasm, it is quite amazing on lots of levels. It's spawned so many feminism/anti feminism arguments all over sites and the like.

Also is the game last having to do with r*** anyways, since it's the usual "Reluctant girl has sex, but then loves it and becomes sex slave second it's finished" crap..

Lots more, but a lot of it's been said..
 

elgringo14

Survived to Japan
Super Moderator
Apr 28, 2008
9,094
337
[sarcasm mode on]
Hentai games are crap anyway.
[/sarcasm mode off]

Hentai industry got a clever solution to overcome the "censorship" (not the mosaic one of course).
If there is not "r***" in the title, it's not a r*** game :chinesenewyearm:

This reminds me the case of an adult anime called 奥様は魔法使い/Enspelled, Kitty Media somewhat edited the cover art to increase the bust size of the ladies, thus hiding the fact that the title involves "lolis". Of course in the video nothing was changed!

The censorship groups only look at cover arts and titles, they don't dare watching/playing the real thing.
 

Ditrik

New Member
Jun 10, 2009
14
0
This thread was so interesting for me that I was literally glued to the computer.I've read all comments in one-go and decided to leave my input.
So here we go ...

First of all like many of you have stated I too think that banning r*** and completely eradicating that fetish is a complete and utter nonsense.
While I don't play ero-games per se, I have enjoyed watching some of hentai which were initially based on ero-games (e.g. Lilith).
These hentais have a lot of forced and non-consensual sex which later on turn in consensual sex where woman clearly enjoys the act of sex and that is depicted by sticked out tounge , rolling eyes , twitching body and let's not forget the smile of a woman in pure ecstasy.

But let's get back on to the topic. Like user Sakunyuusha has stated there is a huge difference between a fictional r*** fantasy , real-life r*** fantasy and real-life r**ist.The only thing that connects all these three types is word r*** , nothing more and nothing less.
I understand that the feminist organization Equality Now wants to lessen the r*** cases by means of banning r*** from ero-games (and later on probably from all other medias aswell) but that is a battle that simply cannot be won.

To me it seems like they've simply taken some scientific research results ,which says that violent games encourage violent tendencies in a subject and even though he was "calm" and "peaceful" person he turned out violent afterwards,and applied it to r*** in ero-games.
And while that study still has not been proven and is publicly debated they've still got the nerve to use that study as means to "help" victims.

In my opinion that organization only yearns for publicity by using that absurd study.One more thing I need to mention is that I was engrossed when I saw that they talk about Japan like they're spreading disease and that they're corrupting the minds of people all over the world. What gives them the right to criticize a country and its culture!?

Equality Now should just drop this case and start dealing with real-life , with real victims attacked by real r**ist and not trouble themselves of trying to deal with "source" because it can't be eradicated no matter how hard you try.There will always be a wacko that will decide to r*** someone simply because he was sexually frustrated or he thought it would be fun to do and you simply can't do anything.

The only thing that can be done is to make punishment for that act so severe that one will think twice before committing it.

Rant over.
 

djbb

Member
Jun 4, 2008
93
2
This thread was so interesting for me that I was literally glued to the computer.I've read all comments in one-go and decided to leave my input.
So here we go ...

First of all like many of you have stated I too think that banning r*** and completely eradicating that fetish is a complete and utter nonsense.
While I don't play ero-games per se, I have enjoyed watching some of hentai which were initially based on ero-games (e.g. Lilith).
These hentais have a lot of forced and non-consensual sex which later on turn in consensual sex where woman clearly enjoys the act of sex and that is depicted by sticked out tounge , rolling eyes , twitching body and let's not forget the smile of a woman in pure ecstasy.

But let's get back on to the topic. Like user Sakunyuusha has stated there is a huge difference between a fictional r*** fantasy , real-life r*** fantasy and real-life r**ist.The only thing that connects all these three types is word r*** , nothing more and nothing less.
I understand that the feminist organization Equality Now wants to lessen the r*** cases by means of banning r*** from ero-games (and later on probably from all other medias aswell) but that is a battle that simply cannot be won.

To me it seems like they've simply taken some scientific research results ,which says that violent games encourage violent tendencies in a subject and even though he was "calm" and "peaceful" person he turned out violent afterwards,and applied it to r*** in ero-games.
And while that study still has not been proven and is publicly debated they've still got the nerve to use that study as means to "help" victims.

In my opinion that organization only yearns for publicity by using that absurd study.One more thing I need to mention is that I was engrossed when I saw that they talk about Japan like they're spreading disease and that they're corrupting the minds of people all over the world. What gives them the right to criticize a country and its culture!?

Equality Now should just drop this case and start dealing with real-life , with real victims attacked by real r**ist and not trouble themselves of trying to deal with "source" because it can't be eradicated no matter how hard you try.There will always be a wacko that will decide to r*** someone simply because he was sexually frustrated or he thought it would be fun to do and you simply can't do anything.

The only thing that can be done is to make punishment for that act so severe that one will think twice before committing it.

Rant over.


Seconded!
exactly what i have in mind.
 

HENTAIBEN

The Nesta
May 13, 2007
472
0
Nice to see this topic bump back after the absurd comment above that brought the topic to a screeching halt seemingly.

I never thought of the whole loophole system, which seems to be the case right now if the only thing that has changed is the title of the game in question. If that's the only changes we see I think we can consider ourselves lucky.

Also good points by Ditrik, I think you'd be hard pressed to find many people here who disagree with that rant.
 

daredemonai

Retiree
Mar 19, 2009
980
1,404
Also good points by Ditrik, I think you'd be hard pressed to find many people here who disagree with that rant.

Daredemonai raises his hand.

Here's one member who disagrees with about half of Ditrik's rant. I wonder if Ditrik has actually read what Equality Now has said about the subject, or just the foaming-at-the-mouth anti-feminist rants that have dominated this discussion all over the English-language Internet. (What study are you referring to, Ditrik? There are many studies that have found that violent video games increase aggression, but no study has ever shown that they lead to violence.)

First of all, as I think I pointed out much earlier in this thread, Equality Now is an international group consisting of people from all over the world, including Japan. There is a Japanese person on the board of directors. So this is hardly a case of one society trying to impose its values on another. There are plenty of people in Japan who think these games go to far, and most of those people are not feminists. So can we please put to rest the whole "Those damned Western feminists are to blame!" theme?

Besides, if I understand it correctly, it was an Irish newspaper that first reported this when the whole Amazon.com (or was it just Amazon.co.uk?) problem came to light. And in the end, it was harsh criticism from mainstream Japanese politicians in the ruling coalition that forced the Ethics Organization of Computer Software to institute a voluntary ban or risk some kind of legal ban.

So, while "those damned feminists" were involved in the middle, the whole issue started and ended in the mainstream. Although some AO members may want to believe that Japan is a hentai paradise, the fact is that the vast majority of Japanese find this sort of thing to be profoundly offensive, and not something that should be sold in ordinary, mainstream outlets as if they were completely unproblematic.

The part of Ditrik's rant I agree with is that this was a waste of Equality Now's resources and clout. Banning such games may or may not have an effect on the number of actual r***s that occur, or on the attitude of police and courts towards women who have been r***ing, but that is highly questionable. It would be a lot more meaningful for Equality Now to work with Japanese groups to force police and courts to take r*** more seriously, and to make it easier for women to report r***s, and get the support they need after experiencing r***.
 

Sakunyuusha

New Member
Jan 27, 2008
1,855
3
It would be a lot more meaningful for Equality Now to work with Japanese groups to force police and courts to take r*** more seriously, and to make it easier for women to report r***s, and get the support they need after experiencing r***.
Thanked specifically for this block of text.

I wrote a long ranty reply as a follow-up, but to sum it up in one sentence: "I just don't want that" (referring to our shared desire in the quote above) "to evolve into witch hunts."

I would like for the law to maintain as much interest in defending the wrongly-accused as it should the victim of the act. In my view, a woman who has consensual sex with a man and then cries "r***!" has committed very nearly as evil (if not just as evil) an act as the fucker who r***s a poor innocent woman in the first place. We live in a paradoxical world where when a woman is really r***ing it's hard for her to be taken seriously because of all the false alarms that have come before her; and yet because of our society's genuine abhorrence of r***, we all too often do muster up our energy and take the matter seriously at times when it turns out the accused is an innocent man. It particularly bothers me that when a man is found guilty of r*** by the courts we do not see nearly as much doubt as we do when a man is acquitted of r***. A man convicted of r*** is "very likely guilty," says your average joe, but a man acquitted of r*** "may have done" or "probably did it" or "definitely did it." It's a real crying shame, and for that reason I think the feminists have to take up the gauntlet and persecute the boys and girls who cry wolf just as adamantly as they pursue the wolves. Wolves, boys who cry wolf ... both are parts of the same damn problem.