End of r*** in ero anime and games?

tofufa said:

So, go suck a lemon.

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Is this a saying where you come from? First time I've ever heard it, just wondering if it's (1) a non-English saying translated directly into English, (2) regional English, or (3) something you've come up with given the connotation of lemons with sour faces.

I mean ... quite frankly, I love lemons, and would gladly suck on one.

Then again, I love eggs, too.

Intentionally useless post for tofufa, who almost got a Godwin point.

Sakunyuusha said:

I mean ... quite frankly, I love lemons, and would gladly suck on one.

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I prefer Cream Lemons :XD:

tofufa, you missed the point of my post. Nowhere do I say that r*** games lead to r***. I do not believe they lead to r***. If you do not fully understand something, perhaps you should be cautious when reacting to it. もうちょっと英語をマスターしてから討論に参加しましょうね。:goodboy:

BTW, Sakunyuusha, "suck a lemon" is an English idiom, though you don't hear it much these days. It's a somewhat less rude way of telling me to go fuck myself. :dunno:

American English? Australian English? British English? I swear it must be a dialectal idiom, because I don't know that I have ever heard it. I'll be amazed if you tell me you're from around where I grew up and that's where you heard it. O_O

And I knew what it meant. As the 4chan crowd says, "an obvious troll is ... well, obvious." Of course, they say it much more memetically than that, but I'd feel sullied to even type it out. -_-;

Sakunyuusha said:

American English? Australian English? British English? I swear it must be a dialectal idiom, because I don't know that I have ever heard it. I'll be amazed if you tell me you're from around where I grew up and that's where you heard it. O_O

And I knew what it meant. As the 4chan crowd says, "an obvious troll is ... well, obvious." Of course, they say it much more memetically than that, but I'd feel sullied to even type it out. -_-;

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Why don't you tell us where are you from?

Dear less knowledgeable forum poster. Perhaps you could tell us more what you study and your level of English competency. May be then, we can deduce why you lack the knowledge you lack.

Ah, so you can at least deduced what that saying meant. Guess your mental capacity is better than your English competency. That's at least a little comforting, because you know, discussing with someone lack the ability to reason is somewhat meaningless.

At least now my effort to communicate with you won't be in vain.

For kicks, I googled it up and found this little funny website.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0159218/quotes

Adding to that, go look up "suck a lemon", you'll see multiple people of the English speaking nations using it. So, really, I am more interested in knowing where you are from and where do YOU grow up.



[/i]Now to self-implied Reading comprehension expert "daredemonai":
Let's see the premise of the argument.
This organization proposed to ban "r*** games" because they think it leads to r***. (or to put it better, they have a problem with how the game "disrespectfully use female anatomy and worry that others will see that and think it's ok".

Please correct me if I am wrong on their intention and/or reasoning.

From *just* the quote I quoted you, first you demean anyone disagrees. Then you go on with your *personal* experience that Japanese Police doesn't do squat, unless it's a "slam dunK" case. ( and here you make a generalization to ALL cases does that in Japan) That including raping cases of course.

Then you go on, "I know Japanese women got r***...". Which is interesting in itself, that you know multiple Japanese got r***. Not only that, but they all didn't choose to report.
That smells like BS.

But let's assume you have, unless r*** is that common that everyone knows multiple women that got r***. Or there is something special about you that makes it more frequent for you to encounter those individuals. (if that's the case, you ain't talking about the norm. stop making it sound as a norm.)

If r*** is that common, there must be something wrong with the Japanese report, I would go bitch to CNN with your inside knowledge to make this issue known to the rest of the world.


An interesting sub conclusion is that, 1) you are obviously NOT a police officer in japan. With your story how the japan police doesn't do squat nor their willingness to help you on your theft. (holding a grudge there, aren't we?)

2) So, what's left that knows a lot of r*** victims? I can come up with the actual serial r**ist, journalist and those organization to help the victims. (or an association to those parties)

So, which one are you? I infer you are not a journalist, or you would've be smart enough to write about the giant cover up of Japanese r*** # piece. (perhaps, you weren't smart enough? )
I hope you are not a serial r**ist, or that will tarnish the reputation online community more (if that's possible.. ) .
Or you are those self-righteous organization associate? (but with the way you post, I doubt that. Or may be you are, /shrug )

Ok, was a little sidetracked, but back on your accusation.

It's obvious, you are somewhat supporting the "equality now" organization. Wouldn't it be intuition that you support their argument too? So spare me with your, "but I didn't say that in my post" argument. You didn't have to state it.

*yawn*

*yawn*

reingiolt said:

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Equality_Now_June2009_Japan_CEDAW44.html

is this authentic?

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Thoughts.

1. The letter does an admirable job of catching lay people up to speed with our terms. It's a little loose in places (don't get me started!), but I would hope that most hentai fans would agree that Equality Now did not deliberately stretch the truth when trying to define terms like "hentai" or "lolicon," nor did they exaggerate in their description of the specific scenarios one commonly encounters in hentai (e.g. teachers having sex with students).
   
2. This is from the middle of the letter:
   
   

   Equality Now said:

   Equality Now has suffered an unprecedented hate mail campaign after the launch of our Women’s Action against Rapelay. In addition to vitriolic r*** and death threats, Equality Now was anonymously sent videos that appeared to depict the actual gang r*** of girls in Japan. However, the Japanese police would not initially investigate the depictions on these tapes, stating that, based on the officers’ analysis of the shape of the girls’ pubic hair, the girls used in the tapes were not under eighteen, and as such the tapes did not represent child pornography. It was only after we impressed upon the police that actual (and not enacted) gang r*** videos are sold on the open market in Japan that they finally agreed to investigate further. We do not know the current status of this investigation, but the lack of initial response serves to underline the Committee’s expressed concern about the prevalence of violence against women and girls in Japan and particularly about women’s apparent reluctance to seek assistance from existing public institutions.

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   This sounds serious, but there's a lot of information we don't know. How exactly did EN contact the authorities? Whom did they specifically contact? And in what manner? English or Japanese? Fluent or non-fluent? Letter, telephone call, or in-person interview? Why does any of this matter? Because! Think about it: what if all that happened was a simple case of miscommunication?
   
   What if the police thought EN was screaming at them because of perceived child pornography? So the police wrote back and said, "Look, there aren't any children here." What if the police genuinely mistook the content of the video for an acted-out r*** porno and not genuine r*** caught on camera? What if EN mistook the police's attitude as chauvinist indifference towards the r*** of innocent women when in fact the police didn't even think it was r*** to begin with?
   
   For such an eloquent letter, it would have been much appreciated by this reader to know (a) the manner in which this conversation took place and (b) what exactly was said. Until I know those two things, I will refrain from judging the moral integrity of the Japanese police officer or officers whom EN contacted.
   
3. And last but certainly not least!
   
   

   Equality Now said:

   Since issuing its Women’s Action, Equality Now has learned that Illusion Software, which produced and distributed RapeLay and other similar games, has withdrawn RapeLay from sale, as has Amazon Japan. However both Illusion and Amazon Japan continue to sell similar games to RapeLay. We also understand that Japan’s Ethics Organisation of Computer Software (EOCS), the industry’s self regulatory body that rates computer software, has just banned its members from producing games containing certain forms of sexual violence against women. EOCS is a voluntary organisation with a large but not universal membership. In addition, it is not clear what aspects of violence against women its rules will address and to what extent they will be applied. Online gaming magazines suggest that due to international attention, game makers in Japan are merely changing titles and pictures on game covers to make them appear innocuous but they are not changing the actual content of these games. Similarly, at least two major gaming companies producing these types of games in Japan have apparently decided to prevent people from outside Japan accessing their websites in an effort to reduce criticism and therefore pressure to stop producing the games altogether. Ultimately however these steps are not enough and it is the responsibility of the Japanese Government properly to address the objectification of, and violence against, women in compliance with its obligations under CEDAW.

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   VERY OBSERVANT, LADIES! Good job! Wow! These girls know the game pretty damn well! XD No fooling them! They are as in the know as anyone here on Akiba-Online! Dayum! Good, good job. Even if I don't want them to ban r*** from fictional sexual media, I applaud their integrity of research. They definitely don't seem to just pull stuff out from their asses. This is a very well-researched, objective criticism they are raising. Good job!

Question: if Equality Now's platform is gender equality -- which is a different platform from the advancement of women over men! -- then I have to ask why this letter focuses so heavily on the r*** of school girls and of women and not human beings in general. While not nearly as common in porn, the theme of women forcing themselves on men is quite prevalent in hentai. And it goes in so many different directions!

- sometimes the little sister forces herself onto her big brother
- sometimes it's the older sister who does it to the younger brother
- sometimes it's a female classmate who tires of the boy's indecisiveness and forces the first few moves upon him
- sometimes it's Mary Kay Letourneau in anime form as she proceeds to foot-fuck a male student's dick and gradually warm him up to the idea of having sex with his teacher

I don't think Equality Now means to fight against r*** in fictional sexual media. I think their genuine goal is to fight against the sexual objectification of women in such media. And that's something I can't deny: hentai definitely portrays women as the closer of the two genders to being a bonafide sex object. Either everyone's pretty or just the girl is. Ugly guys fuck women -- any woman will do, but normally the women are hot -- while ugly girls rarely get to have any sex. Whenever a girl calls over her tutor, she's either hoping to have sex or else she isn't but is pleasantly surprised when he makes the moves on her anyway. Whenever a sister and a brother are in the bathtub together, either the sister wants to have sex or else she doesn't but soon gives in and enjoys it anyway. Almost always, whether the woman is portrayed as victorious or not, whether she enjoys a happy ending or a bleak and miserable one, almost always does she encounter sex. And in so doing, it is fair to say that hentai portrays women as being inextricable from sex. Hentai programs men to think "women, sex. Sex, women." When there are no women in the scene, there's never any sex. When there are women in the scene, there's bound to be sex in just a few moments.

But the thing is, that's what all porn does! It sexually objectifies the main characters! When I watch a porno of Hamasaki Rio pretending to be a teacher, I could give two shits about her professional interests, her salary, how long she's been working there, who her favorite students are, etc. Teacher, nurse, maid: the profession serves as nothing more than a fetish, a garnish if you will for the main course -- her, Hamasaki Rio, a delicious woman made from meat and fat and bone and spirit. It is the woman, in all her sexual glory, who I have tuned in to see -- not the teacher, not the daughter, not the mother, but the woman.

So, fundamentally, I think that Equality Now is dilly-dallying. I think that they know who their true opponent is but they know that if they go up against him guns a-blazin' that they'll lose the people's support.

Why? Because, fundamentally, their real enemy is pornography period.

Does porn sexually objectify women? Yes. Case closed: Equality Now is against the sexual objectification of women, therefore they are against pornography period.

Waving my Middle Finger to Equality now !!! this shit getting on my nerves, I don't see a connection between Hentai and Gender Equality ???? (did they can't get a job because of hentai ?? fuck no!) why did they blame Hentai ? there are tons of gender equality matter more than Hens when they should be stopping real world prostitution business,child sexual abuse,women workers being payed too cheap and all sorts of those things

I suppose what I wanted to say, in brief, was that hentai certainly does portray women as bitches in heat; but it also portrays men as dogs.

I'll explain it a different way again, but the above is really all I wanted to point out. It is true that women are portrayed as starved for sex in hentai, but men are portrayed even more so to be such beastly creatures, so I really don't think it's fair of the women to say that hentai is chauvinistic.

[hide]Consider the following scenario:

A girl goes over to her male friend's house to help him study math. He's in danger of failing the course, so she figures as a friend she'll give him some pointers. When she gets there, the boy's mom brings up some lemonade and cookies but then goes back downstairs. The boy can't concentrate on his studies. All he can focus on are his best friend's massive boobs. He shakes his head and averts his gaze, only now to have his eyes land on her cute little feet curled up under her big, round tush. It looks so squishy and soft, like a pillow or a bra-cup ... NO! I can't think these things! Then he hears a voice. "Ryuu-kun, what's wrong?" His best friend is inches away from his face. He can see her cleavage. He can see her luscious lips. He can smell her coconut perfume. It is intoxicating. And Ryuu-kun loses it. "KYAA!" His friend screams as Ryuu throws her gently to the floor, positions himself on top of her, and clumsily begins to undress her.

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Does this story serve to objectify women? Certainly. "Women are good as servants and baby-making machines," Equality Now might say of this comic's message. After all, all the mom did was come up with snacks. All the girl did was have a sexy body. No other skills.

No other skills, though? Is that true? Then what about the guy!? At least the girl was smart at math! At least the girl could pay attention! At least the girl wasn't sex-obsessed like Ryuu was! When it mattered most, all he could think about was her boobs. His best friend's boobs! Wtf, Ryuu! She came over here to help you study and all you can think of is fucking her?

"What's wrong with that depiction of a man?" I can almost imagine someone in Equality Now asking me this question. I can imagine daredemonai scolding me for suggesting they would do this. ^^; But it's true! The depiction of Ryuu-kun is atrocious. The author, a fellow man himself and writing this comic for men around the world to masturbate to, has made Ryuu out to be a boy who like all teenage boys stereotypically cannot think of anything else but sex, especially not when presented with such a beautiful young lady such as his best friend! There in his bedroom!

If the gender roles were reversed -- and they rarely are in these types of stories, since even the male tutors more often than not are led on by the girls they tutor -- I am sure that EN would raise holy hell. They would object that the woman was being portrayed as a dunce. As a meatsack who is only good for fucking and making babies. "Oh, so the boy gets to be the smart one! The boy has self-control! The boy thinks about things other than sex! We see how it is!"

But they don't because they can't because no such comic commonly exists. The gender roles aren't reversed. It is the male who's portrayed as a sex-starved idiot who, on the verge of failing out of mathematics, can think of nothing else besides "1 + 1 = 3." (Translation: baby-making.)[/hide]

redrooster said:

Hentai however has companies publishing it, they have a website, an address and a phone no. ...

They just go the easiest way. But hentai is virtual only, so noone really is harmed, the other things I mentioned are real!

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True very true, they pick easiest visible target and unlikely to strike back like some bullies than concentrating on essential heavy matter (like child prostitution etc) where they could be faced with a crime syndicate endangering their lives....

like red said Hens are virtual, no one is harmed so why should they after it ??? even if they are serious they should start with AV r*** porn than Hens ! Fuck these Equality Now bitches !(profanity out, boiling blood in my head)

Not a fan of dominatrixes or pushy women so I'd be pretty sore. But it'd be worth it just for this. lol

Is it r*** if the man says no at first but in the end he likes it? Is it r*** if he says no but in his heart he probably wants it and is just too ashamed or embarrassed to admit it?

Switch the gender roles around and feminist groups would eagerly shout, "YES! IT'S r***!", so I'm going to have to say that it's r*** here, too.

And in that case, there are plenty of hentai stories where a woman "r***s" a boy or a man. But are there plenty for hentai anime, specifically? Hmm ... I guess not. But there are some!

• Kiss x Sis prominently features attempted r*** of Keita by his two older sisters. But it's showcased as "happy, playful r***."
• Eromanga MitaiNa Koi Shiyou's 2nd episode featured a horny younger sister raping her older brother. It was what you'd call "happy r***," too, with the boy not wanting it but seeing it as more an embarrassing inconvenience than anything else, but if "unwanted sex" is r***, then that scene was most definitely r*** at its onset
• Taimanin Asagi's 1st episode shows Oboro raping Keisuke, Asagi's fiancé

It might not be as common as in the comics, and most of the examples may be a lot more light-hearted than their gender-role-swapped counterparts, but the Oboro/Keisuke scene in Asagi is proof that hardcore, mean-spirited raping by women of men can and does take place in hentai anime.

aww come on.... , in Discipline there are plenty of man raping, in warau kangofu, women at work etc..... I've seen more than enough hens when girls make the first move to either seduce or r*** the guy