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  #11  
Old 08-30-2012, 11:54 AM
dustziggy dustziggy is offline
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Japan is in a difficult position. China was forced to give the islands to Japan as part of a war treaty during the first Sino Japanese war, however after WW2 an international agreement forced Japan to relinquish any territory it had gained in Asia. After the war the U.S took care of the islands until the 70's when it decided to give them to Japan instead of China despite the agreement in place after WW2. If Japan hands back the islands to China as it should it will seem weak to Japanese nationalists. I'm no fan of the young Chinese protesters acting like children but it seems Japan should quietly submit a timetable for return of the islands to the Chinese government.
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  #12  
Old 08-31-2012, 11:09 AM
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Ceewan Ceewan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustziggy View Post
China was forced to give the islands to Japan as part of a war treaty during the first Sino Japanese war, however after WW2 an international agreement forced Japan to relinquish any territory it had gained in Asia. After the war the U.S took care of the islands until the 70's when it decided to give them to Japan instead of China despite the agreement in place after WW2. If Japan hands back the islands to China as it should it will seem weak to Japanese nationalists.
I don't mind being disagreed with intelligently so I appreciate the input. I have to disagree with your interpertation of the facts though.

The US relinquished control of the Senkaku Islands to Japan as part of the Okinawa Reversion Treaty considering them a part of the Ryukyu Islands, ( the largest island in this chain is Okinawa), because that is how they were considered under US control for administration purposes. Thus the Potsdam Declaration was refined under the Treaty of San Francisco. If China had such a good claim as they say, they have had over fifty years to make their case to the international community.

additional comments:
http://www.akiba-online.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2143330&postcount=29

additional sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potsdam_Declaration
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_San_Francisco

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Last edited by Ceewan; 08-31-2012 at 06:37 PM.. Reason: grammar
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  #13  
Old 09-01-2012, 12:26 AM
dustziggy dustziggy is offline
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It's not complicated. The Senkaku Islands were discovered, claimed and named by China a long long time go. China claims it was the 14th century but the exact date does not matter. What matters is Japan also knew the islands belonged to China before taking them during the first Sino Japan war.

After WW2 the U.S made the mistake of including the Senkaku islands as part of the whole Japanese Ryukyu Islands group. Unsurprisingly in the 70's when the U.S handed control of the Ryukyu Islands group back to Japan it also mistakenly included the Senkaku islands.

It could be argued that China took too long to claim the islands back for itself but considering nobody listened to anything China had to say from the 50's onward, its not a surprise. What matters is that Japan did know the Senkaku islands belonged to China but excepted them from the U.S anyway.

As time moves forward the islands are not inhabited and thus the rightful transfer ownership back to China will harm nobody. Personally I couldn't care less about the island group but if had to make a judgement id rule in favor of China on this one. The Japanese case for the islands is a bit weak.
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  #14  
Old 09-01-2012, 02:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustziggy View Post
The Japanese case for the islands is a bit weak.

Let me quote from The Potsdam Declaration, ( also known as the Proclamation Defining Terms for Japanese Surrender), signed by the Nationalist Government of China, the United States and the United Kingdom:
Quote:
"Japanese sovereignty shall be limited to the islands of Honshū, Hokkaidō, Kyūshū, Shikoku and such minor islands as we determine."
Also allow me to quote the wiki on The Treaty of Peace with Japan,(commonly known as the Treaty of San Francisco or San Francisco Peace Treaty), signed by 48 nations excluding China, (who was involved in a civil war at the time ).
Quote:
Article 3 of the treaty left the Bonin Islands and the Ryukyu Islands, which included Okinawa and the Amami, Miyako and Yaeyama Islands groups, under a potential U.S. trusteeship.
These treaties should make clear that the disposition of what islands were to be returned to Japans' control was given to the US government, (all of the islands mentioned in article 3 have been returned to Japan by the US), and why Japan recognizes that authority. I would not call Japans' claim weak by any means.
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  #15  
Old 09-01-2012, 05:24 AM
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China has already grown up as a strong country (as competitive as the US maybe?) which is quite an accomplishment (in my opinion). The US may be fearing that china becomes stronger..?
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  #16  
Old 09-01-2012, 07:54 AM
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China, Taiwan, Philippines, Japan..... other countries.


Endless disputes, revenge, and altercations of islands and land... when will people be kind and just share and live with each other with lots of love?


That will be highly unlikely to happen. More deaths and injuries to come in the future.....

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  #17  
Old 09-01-2012, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amwf View Post
China has already grown up as a strong country (as competitive as the US maybe?) which is quite an accomplishment (in my opinion). The US may be fearing that china becomes stronger..?
Maybe..... but realistically...no. China is no threat for world domination schemes. Alliances between Europe, Australia, the US and many smaller but no less proud countries would make China look pretty isolated and somewhat small.

However smaller countries like Taiwan and Vietnam might have reason to be scared shitless, though they sure are not acting like it. China is a pretty oppressive and aggressive country at the moment and the Chinese people are scared of their own government, for good reason too, just ask the survivors of Tiananmen Square.

Questions and opinions of China aside, southeast asia is a powder keg right now waiting for a spark.

sources and articles of interest:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/4/newsid_2496000/2496277.stm
http://www.voanews.com/content/fresh-tensions-build-up-between-vietnam-china/1275420.html
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-08-30/taiwan-drills-may-elevate-asia-maritime-tensions-as-apec-to-meet
http://www.brecorder.com/top-news/10...-at-apec-.html
http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story...rce-of-tension
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  #18  
Old 09-02-2012, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Ceewan View Post
"China is no threat for world domination schemes."

"proud countries"

"China is a pretty oppressive and aggressive country"
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  #19  
Old 09-02-2012, 10:18 AM
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Go make your pro-communist arguments to the Dali Lama, I am sure he would love to hear them.
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